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Shedding: An antivax trope resurrected for COVID-19 vaccines

Antivax pediatrician Dr. Larry Palevsky recently demonized COVID-19 vaccines by resurrecting the old antivaccine trope of vaccinated people “shedding” and causing illness in the unvaccinated. This time, he claims, the shedding of spike protein causes illness and menstrual problems in the unvaccinated. It’s utter nonsense.

I make no bones about the fact that I harbor an intense contempt for antivaccine physicians. The reason is simple. Physicians should know better than to fall for the bad science, pseudoscience, distortions of science, and conspiracy theories at the heart of antivaccine beliefs. Unfortunately, a disturbing number of physicians do not. I reserve my most intense contempt, however, for antivaccine pediatricians, because, of all medical specialties, pediatricians should know even better than most physicians when it comes to vaccines. More importantly, pediatricians (particularly primary care pediatricians), along with other pediatric health care specialists, such as nurses, are the “tip of the spear,” so to speak, when it comes to defeating vaccine-preventable diseases and keeping children safe because they vaccinate children every day. As a result, antivaccine pediatricians can do a lot more damage than the odd antivaccine physician, most of whom are either from specialties that don’t routinely vaccinate patients, such as surgical specialties, or are retired. True, Andrew Wakefield was not a pediatric primary care physician, and he did a whole lot of damage to confidence in the MMR vaccine and vaccines in general, but these days, pediatricians, such as Drs. Bob Sears and Paul Thomas, are doing their best to leverage their status as primary care pediatricians to increase vaccine hesitancy and antivaccine views among parents. And then there’s Dr. Larry Palevsky, who, after having earlier jumped on the COVID-19 denial grift train, has come to my attention for the most recently resurrected antivaccine trope in the era of COVID-19, one that is so ridiculous that you wouldn’t think that it would take off, even among antivaxxers. I’m referring to the phenomenon of “shedding.”

Before I get into the claim of “shedding” itself, let’s start out with the source of this resurrected antivaccine trope: Antivaccine pediatrician Dr. Palevsky. I originally learned of it from perusing, as is my wont from time to time while looking for blog fodder, that wretched hive of scum and antivaccine quackery Age of Autism, which published a post yesterday entitled Spike Protein 101: A Primer from Dr. Larry Palevsky. It’s basically a transcript of a 12-minute video posted to a website called Truth UnMasked called Stay Away.

As an aside, I can’t help but interject here that any website that calls itself “Truth” and then uses “UnMasked” is almost certainly an antimask, COVID-19 contrarian/crank site that is likely to minimize the seriousness of the pandemic and peddle all sorts of COVID-19 and antivaccine misinformation, and a brief perusal of the site is very consistent with that. In particular, there’s a link to a Google Docs file full of the deceptive and false weaponization of death reports in VAERS as slam dunk evidence for the lie claiming that COVID-19 vaccines are killing people, when, as I’ve discussed on several occasions, reporting to VAERS does not mean causation.

Three videos on “shedding”

Here are the three videos. The first two are a videos not featuring Dr. Palevsky, warning people to “stay away” from people who have recently received a COVID-19 vaccine. The first of these is a woman claiming that reproductive age women should stay away from people who have been recently vaccinated against COVID-19 because they are having “severe” menstrual side effects because…magical contagion? It’s not clear, but here she is:

In brief, she claims that women who are around other women who have had the COVID-19 vaccine are missing periods or having the “most excruciating periods of their lives” to the point where they are “bleeding so profusely that it is out of character. How? Some sort of “shedding” of…something. She even claims that postmenopausal women have been “getting their periods back.” Unsurprisingly, she is a “wholistic reproductive doula,” and, amusingly, she says that this is not about conspiracy theories (even though she claims that “they” are trying to “sterilize us”) and that she is “standing up” for women. Also, “they” are coming for women’s health. But not just women, men, too, as she also claims that the COVID-19 is “dropping men’s sperm counts.” She’s also oh-so-empathetic to the point that she says that if you’ve had the vaccine you shouldn’t feel “shame or sadness,” even though she understands how “natural” that would be. She’s also praying for you. How nice.

Next up is a woman named Nic Stinson, who runs that Truth UnMasked website:

Stinson claims that women and men who have come into close proximity to people who have had vaccines are complaining of problems. She blames it on “shedding,” not of weakened virus, as is the case with some attenuated live virus vaccines—more on that later—but of “shedding” of the spike protein due to “mRNA gene therapy” that is “altering the makeup of the human body.” (Yes, she’s using all the antivaccine tropes about the COVID-19 vaccine, including the distortion of fact that it’s “experimental gene therapy” that “permanently alters your DNA.” I guess she’s afraid of her precious bodily fluids being sapped and impurified.) In any event, she claims that the vaccinated are “shedding” spike protein from their breath and poor, and that that’s making others who come into contact with them sick, causing reproductive problems, mass sterilization, and more. She also claims that exposure to vaccinated adults have resulted in ten year olds starting their periods or 11-year-olds having two periods in a month, as if that were horrifically abnormal. (My wife is a pediatric nurse practitioner. She tells me that it is not at all abnormal to start periods at age 10, and it’s quite common for a girl’s periods to be irregular right after menarche.) Stinson also reiterates the other claims of postmenopausal women starting their periods again and reproductive age women missing periods or having horrible periods, adding to that the claim that men whose wives have had the vaccine sometimes wake up covered in bruises.

I had never heard of Nic Stinson before, but a quick Google search quickly led me to her Twitter account and Instagram page, which reveals her to be antivax and antimask to the extreme, as well as, or so she claims, a nurse. Here are just a couple of examples:

Oh, goody. She’s repeating the claim that vaccines are “transhumanism,” and he’s not just antivaccine, but offensively and disgustingly ableist, to boot, not to mention homophobic and vindictive! She also seems to think that people who wear masks are pedophiles, too:

How do such vile people become nurses?

And what is “vaccine shedding,” anyway?

How shedding after a vaccine really works

Regular readers will know that a favorite antivaccine trope is to claim that live attenuated virus vaccines (vaccines using a weakened version of the virus that can’t cause disease) “shed” the virus and that that shedded virus is dangerous to those around them. This is a trope that existed long before the COVID-19 pandemic that’s being repurposed by antivaxxers now.

Basically, it’s the antivax answer to the observation that they are potential sources of infection and outbreaks. It’s projection in which they try to convince you that it is the recently vaccinated, not the unvaccinated, who are a danger to the unvaccinated and vaccinated alike. It’s long been very clear to me that the claim that children shed virus and are thus potential vectors for infection is important to antivaxxers because it allows them to portray others as equally, if not more, the cause of outbreaks than their children, but is there anything to it? Regular readers can probably guess the answer to that question. The answer, of course, is that there’s far less to the issue of virus shedding than meets the eye. As I mentioned above, virus shedding can only occur with live virus vaccines, such as the rotovirus vaccineoral polio virus vaccines (which are not really used in the US any more because of a one in 2.7 million risk of paralysis from the vaccine strain of the virus), or intranasal flu vaccines.

There’s a difference between shedding and causing disease, however. For one thing, the strains of virus used in live attenuated virus vaccines are just that—attenuated. They’ve been weakened so that they don’t cause actual disease. Otherwise, using a live virus vaccine would be the same as giving the disease to the person vaccinated, which would rather sabotage the whole purpose of vaccination in the first place. The question, then, is whether secondary transmission (transmission of the vaccine strain virus to others who haven’t received it) is a major concern. The answer to that question, is no, as these articles entitled Secondary Transmission: The short and sweet about live virus vaccine shedding and Live Vaccines and Vaccine Shedding, show.

We learn from the former article that these are commonly given live virus vaccines:

  • MMR – the combination measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine
  • Vavivax – the varicella or chicken pox vaccine
  • rotavirus vaccines – including two oral vaccines, RotaTeq and Rotarix
  • Flumist – the nasal spray flu vaccine
  • oral polio vaccine – the original oral polio vaccine (sometimes called the Sabin vaccine). Again, this has been replaced in the United States by the inactivated polio vaccine (Salk vaccine)

We also know that:

  • the MMR vaccine doesn’t cause shedding, except that the rubella part of the vaccine may rarely shed into breastmilk (since rubella is typically a mild infection in children, this isn’t a reason to not be vaccinated if you are breastfeeding though). What about the rare case of a person developing measles after getting the MMR vaccine? In addition to being extremely rare, it would also be extremely rare for a person to transmit the vaccine virus to another person after developing measles in this way.
  • the chicken pox vaccine doesn’t cause shedding unless your child very rarely develops a vesicular rash after getting vaccinated. However, the risk is thought to be minimal and the CDC reports only 5 cases of transmission of varicella vaccine virus after immunization among over 55 million doses of vaccine.
  • the rotavirus vaccine only causes shedding in stool, so can be avoided with routine hygiene techniques, such as good hand washing, and if immunocompromised people avoid diaper changes, etc., for at least a week after a child gets a rotavirus vaccine
  • transmission of the live, nasal spray flu vaccine has not been found in several settings, including people with HIV infection, children getting chemotherapy, and immunocompromised people in health-care settings

In other words, the claim that virus shedding is a serious problem is yet another bit of antivaccine nonsense. It’s true that some pediatric cancer centers in the past used to caution the parents of immunosuppressed patients to keep their children separated from recently vaccinated children, but that was more out of an abundance of caution than anything else. Indeed, guidelines from the Immune Deficiency Foundation state:

Close contacts of patients with compromised immunity should not receive live oral poliovirus vaccine because they might shed the virus and infect a patient with compromised immunity. Close contacts can receive other standard vaccines because viral shedding is unlikely and these pose little risk of infection to a subject with compromised immunity. 

Antivaxxers actually do (mostly) realize that none of the current COVID-19 vaccines use attenuated live SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, but they’re nothing if not clever. So, instead of “viral shedding,” they point to “shedding” of the spike protein that the mRNA vaccines (Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech) and the adenovirus-based vaccines (Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca) induce cells to produce in order to provoke an immune response to prevent COVId-19 as the “cause” of the vaccinated being somehow dangerous to the unvaccinated. Whereas there was a real, albeit oft exaggerated, concern about shedding from live attenuated virus vaccines, concern about those vaccinated against COVID-19 “shedding” spike protein and causing problems in others is ridiculous in the extreme, from a scientific standpoint, as I will discuss. It is, however, yet another example of how everything old is new again and there are no antivax tropes about COVID-19 vaccines that were not antivaccine tropes about other vaccines before the pandemic.

Dr. Palevsky explains it all to you…

Let’s move on to Dr. Palevesky’s video, having imbibed an incredible level of antivaccine nonsense. As antivax pediatricians do, Dr. Palevsky believes that it really, really, really must be the vaccine, and he even proposes a nonsensical mechanism, “shedding”:

Notice how none of these video is on YouTube, which is good. Rumble, though, appears to have become the go-to hosting service for antivaccine and COVID-19 misinformation and disinformation, though. In any event, I can’t help but “thank” the Laura Hayes at AoA for helpfully providing me a transcript, so that I don’t have to transcribe relevant passages myself—or even watch the entire video.

Let’s dig in:

When studies are done on injections that are thought to be vaccines, we sometimes need 7, 10, or even 15 years, to understand what the injection does to the body, and what it does to those around us.

How did this fool ever graduate from medical school and get through a pediatrics residency? Seriously. How? No, we do not need that long to determine how vaccines affect us. In general, adverse events from vaccines generally occur fairly quickly, and, no, vaccines do not cause autism, autoimmune disease, diabetes, or all the other chronic illnesses that antivaxxers attribute to vaccines.

Next up, Dr. Palevsky further demonstrates his lack of understanding of biology, infectious disease, and immunology. Either that, or he has such contempt for his audience that he is knowingly misrepresenting the situation. Take your pick:

The other thing is that we are made to believe in the public eye that this is a vaccine against a viral infection. So, the entire world is thinking that this is a vaccine to protect us against SARS-COV2 infection. And when you have a vaccine that is supposed to be effective as a vaccine, you are supposed to have antibody immunity against the SARS-COV2 virus. And that has never been evaluated with these injections as to whether or not we have antibody immunity to a SARS-COV2 virus. Instead, what we have is the genetic information of what is believed to be a piece of the SARS-COV2 virus, and that piece is called the spike protein. And the technology that is being used is a technology to make this injection that has never been used in vaccine science or methodology before with any kind of success.

So, we are essentially taking the genetic instructions that make a synthetic spike protein, believed to be a part of the SARS-COV2 virus, and we are giving those sets of instructions into the body and asking the human body to take the genetic instructions of that spike protein and make more of it in our own machinery. And so this messenger RNA technology, which is what it is called, is delivering the genetic instructions for us to make the spike protein. And the problem is that no study has ever been done to test its safety. But, also, no study has been done to test whether we turn on the production of that spike protein, and ever turn it off.

Again, even though the mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines were made in record time, the groundwork for their development was two decades in the making, as scientists have been developing this technology for SARS, MERS, and other coronaviruses, as well as for other viral diseases. Contrary to what antivaxxers like to claim or imply, mRNA vaccine technology did not just magically spring up last spring as the pandemic took off. Indeed, it’s been said that, had COVID-19 hit us five years ago, the technology would not have been ready yet, and we wouldn’t have had a vaccine so quickly. As for the claim that “no study” has been done to test the safety of such vaccines, that’s just nonsense. No, it’s a lie. For the mRNA vaccines, there were phase 3 studies involving a total of over 70,000 subjects, and now that 200 million doses of these vaccines have been administered in the US, the post-vaccination safety monitoring system has been intense and found no serious safety signals for mRNA vaccines. Even in the case of the J&J vaccine, the monitoring system has found rare, literally one-in-a-million adverse events in basically real time.

Even more ignorant, though, Dr. Palevsky doesn’t seem to know that if you produce an effective immune response to a key protein of a virus (or even just a key portion of a key protein), as long as the protein or fragment of a protein used as an antigen was well-chosen, the immune response provoked by that antigen can attack the virus and prevent infection. That’s the whole idea of not using killed whole cell vaccines (in the case of bacterial diseases) or killed virus vaccines (in the case of viral diseases). That’s the whole attraction of using recombinant protein as a vaccine antigen. It’s much “cleaner” and easier to scale up.

Dr. Palevsky then disingenuously implies that, because spike protein has been associated with various toxicities from COVID-19, then it must be toxic if it is “shedding”:

And so spike protein in the naturally occurring SARS-COV2 viral infection has been shown to cause brain inflammation and neurological damage, heart attacks, lung disease, liver disease, kidney disease, and interacting with the male and female reproductive systems, along with affecting blood binding to oxygen and blood clotting. And so we know that the natural disease of SARS-COV2, because of the effects of the spike protein, is making people sick with all of these kinds of systemic illnesses. And so now we are taking that spike protein genetic instructions and we are asking our bodies to make more of that spike protein. And so by making more of that spike protein, we are essentially creating the symptoms and the illness of Covid 19, by giving people the potential to have brain damage and neurological damage, lung disease, liver disease, kidney disease, heart attacks, strokes, blood clotting issues, and impairments to male and female reproductive systems. And there is no study to show whether when the body starts manufacturing this synthetic spike protein, whether or not we ever turn off the production of that spike protein. And so that spike protein is known to be pretty damaging to the human tissue.

Yes, spike protein causes problems when it is being made in large quantities as part of a coronavirus infection. Vaccine safety monitoring of hundreds of millions of people after having received hundreds of millions of doses of these vaccines have failed to find any safety signal suggestive of any of the claims made by Palevsky. In addition, it’s just plain wrong to say that we don’t know how long the body keeps making spike protein after vaccination. The vaccines were designed such that the modified mRNA from the vaccine lasts longer than “natural” mRNA, but not indefinitely. Like all mRNAs, the mRNA for the spike protein used in COVID-19 vaccines degrades fairly quickly and goes away. As this article explains:

RNA is required for protein synthesis, does not integrate into the genome, is transiently expressed, is metabolized and eliminated by the natural mechanisms of the body and is therefore considered safe4,5,6,7. RNA-based prophylactic infectious-disease vaccines and RNA therapeutic agents have been shown to be safe and well-tolerated in clinical trials

I’ve pointed out before that the vaccines do not induce your cells to produce spike protein for more than 10-14 days. Seriously, does Dr. Palevsky think that figuring out how long the mRNA persists and how long it can induce the production of spike protein wouldn’t have been among the first priorities in the preclinical development of an mRNA-based vaccine to COVID-19?

But, of course, Dr. Palevsky is just asking questions (a.k.a. JAQing off):

So we know that spike protein has been found in saliva, we know that it has been found in the anus, and so, we have to ask the question, is it found in the exhalation molecules that come out of our breath? Is it found in the skin when we sweat and we smell, do the spike proteins come out, and if so, does that impact other people with whom we come in contact?

Note how he cites no evidence that spike protein is being exhaled. Even though spike protein has been found in saliva and in the anus, this was in patients with COVID-19, not in vaccinated patients. But Dr. Palevsky is just asking questions! See:

And so what we have been seeing is a massive increase in those who have been given the injection of blood clotting problems, miscarriages, stillborns, infertility, strokes, heart attacks, autoimmune diseases, and death, just to name a few. And that’s in those who have been injected. So, certainly, there should be a suspicion when you see people around the injected people, who have not been injected, getting the typical symptoms of Covid, in addition to miscarriages, bleeding, irregular menstrual cycles, it should raise a very, very strong suspicion. So, certainly, there should be a suspicion when you see people around the injected people, who have not been injected, getting the typical symptoms of Covid, in addition to miscarriages, bleeding, irregular menstrual cycles, it should raise a very, very strong suspicion.

No. It should not. It might if this were an attenuated live virus vaccine, but it’s not. It’s a vaccine that just makes one protein from the virus, the spike protein, to which Dr. Palevsky seems to attribute magical properties, even as he invokes very bad molecular biology:

And the thing is that we are finding that the genetic instructions of the spike protein are not specific just to the SARS-COV2 virus. The genetic instructions of the spike protein are also similar to, or the same, as many proteins that exist in the body itself. And so, therefore, if we are going to produce an antibody against the genetic instructions of the spike protein, those antibodies are going to find every bit of protein tissue around the body that matches the genetic instructions of the spike protein. And that antibody to the spike protein genetic instructions is going to produce an attack on any of the proteins and tissues in the body that are similar or the same to the genetic instructions of the spike protein. So that is why you will see autoimmune diseases.

Somebody get Dr. Palevsky an college introductory level molecular biology textbook! Why? He seems not to know the difference between “genetic instructions,” mRNA, and proteins. He seems to think that an immune response to an mRNA coding for a protein will attack the protein itself and any protein that looks like it, thus producing autoimmune disease. Truly, Dr. Palevsky needs a remedial course in basic biology and molecular biology. (Either that, or, again, he’s lying. Take your pick.)

He even invokes old antivaccine tropes about COVID-19 vaccines that I discussed long ago, such as the claim that COVID-19 vaccines cause miscarriages because of the similarity between parts of the spike protein and an important protein in the placenta called syncytin. (They do not, as the areas of similarity are far too short to result in an immune response against syncytin.) He even refers to an “article from the European literature” that says that there are similarities between the spike protein and “cause the body to make an antibody against the genetic instructions of the spike protein, we will also cause the body to make an antibody against the male and female reproductive systems because those proteins in the male and female reproductive systems had similar instructions to the spike protein.” Is he referring to Michael Yeadon, who apparently once worked for Pfizer but has become a COVID-19 crank? I suspect he is.

But don’t listen to those scientists who dismissed these claims based on their incredibly low prior plausibility based on, essentially, everything we know about molecular biology and immunology. Listen to Dr. Palevsky dismiss these scientists instead:

And so the experts around the world did the following…when they heard this scientific concern, the experts around the world said, oh, but the amount of genetic instructions of the proteins in the male and female reproductive systems are so small in similarity to the genetic instructions of the spike protein, that it really shouldn’t make a difference. And, ladies and gentlemen, that is how we got the science that said there should be no concerns about infertility or miscarriages in men and women, respectively. There were no studies, just an opinion, that said the genetic instructions of the proteins on the male and female reproductive systems were such small similarities to the spike protein, that it shouldn’t matter. And, therefore, it didn’t matter. And so what we are seeing in women who get the injection, is a very large, hundreds of percent increase, in miscarriages and stillborns of their babies, all being reported to VAERS.

Yes, friends. Dr. Palevsky is speaking The Truth that “they” don’t want you to know about and dismiss without studying, pointing to anecdotal reports rather than rigorous epidemiological studies. He’s even going beyond that:

And now what we are seeing is women who are around others who have been injected are having the same experience, which has to raise the suspicion that not only does that messenger RNA make the body produce spike protein on an ongoing basis, but that spike protein is probably shedding out of the breath, the saliva, the skin, and who knows where else in the body it is being shed from.

As a thought experiment, let’s just assume for the moment that there is something to Dr. Palevsky’s speculations other than the ravings of a man who clearly needs to have his medical license taken away and be sent back to remedial basic biology, biochemistry, and molecular biology. Is he saying that spike protein is absorbed through the skin? That’s incredibly unlikely, given the keratinized epithelium that is pretty effective at keeping foreign proteins out, except when broken. Is he saying we’re breathing in spike protein? I suppose it’s possible, but a vaccinated person is not going to make anywhere near the amount of spike protein as someone with an active infection, much less exhale it in quantities that someone is likely to inhale in amounts sufficient to cause toxicity. The reason SARS-CoV-2 is infectious is because droplets containing the virus suspended in the air get inhaled and manage to take up shop in the respiratory tree, replicating and making a lot more virus. A protein alone can’t do that. More importantly, it’s not just the spike protein that makes you sick. In fact, the contribution of the spike protein, which is the protein that latches the virus onto cells so that it can infect them, is probably, in and of itself, a relatively small contributor to severe illness in COVID-19. Rather, it’s the virus, its replication in cells leading to massive cell death, and the immune response provoked by the virus in the context of infection that lead to the severe illness we see.

But Dr. Palevsky is “just asking questions,” more questions:

Just the last point before you ask me the next question. That is only based on what we think we know is in these injections. But Dr. Tenpenny and I have discussed this on numerous occasions, that there is potential for other mRNA proteins being injected into the body that would cause the body to make all sorts of proteins that we may not be aware of.

“Other mRNA proteins”? Again, Dr. Palevsky, get thee hence to a molecular biology textbook! You’re conflating mRNA and protein. mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines can only induce the cells they come in contact with to make the protein that the mRNA in the lipid nanoparticles code for. That’s it. This is nothing but a fallacious appeal to what is represented as “unknown” but really isn’t. Again, either Dr. Palevsky needs a remedial course in molecular biology or he is lying. Take your pick.

The bottom line: “Shedding” of spike protein is disinformation

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Antivaccine doctors, especially pediatricians, should lose their medical licenses. That goes double for an antivaccine pediatrician like Dr. Palevsky, who is spreading disinformation falsely claiming that the spike protein whose production mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines induce has seemingly magical properties that lead it to be shed and be a danger to the unvaccinated as well as those receiving the vaccine. I concentrated on the biology, but Dr. Vincent Iannelli has noted that there have been no safety signals to suggest that these vaccines affect menstruation or fertility. He also notes:

Consider Palevsky’s evidence example anecdote of the healthy people who he believes get sick from shedding. Isn’t it more likely that these folks, who you have to assume aren’t vaccinated, are just getting COVID-19? 

After all, it isn’t the spike protein in COVID-19 that makes you sick. The spike protein simply helps the virus get into our cells. Once inside, the virus is translated into 29 different proteins, which are assembled into new viruses, and then infect more cells. 

But when you get vaccinated, you just have the spike protein. There is no SARS-CoV-2 virus to take over cells, so even if this shedding somehow did happen, it wouldn’t cause any of the signs or symptoms of COVID-19 that Palevsky imagines.

Dr. Iannelli also notes, as I pointed out near the beginning of this post, that resurrecting the hoary old antivaccine trope of “shedding” from vaccines being a danger to the unvaccinated is nothing more than projection. It’s a conscious attempt to “turn the tables” on vaccine advocates who point out that the unvaccinated are a danger that can start and fuel outbreaks of vaccine-preventable disease, citing Maureen McDonnell:

It’s almost like we need to turn the tables on vaccine recipients. I mean, people who aren’t getting vaccinated are typically considered, you know, the outsiders… we’re in the wrong for resisting vaccines, but in actuality, it could be that the vaccine recipients are the ones creating the problem.

No, it’s not “almost” like “turning the tables.” It is a conscious strategy to “turn the tables” and portray the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated, as being the danger. Don’t think that antivaxxers don’t know this and respond to it:

Whenever you see the claim by antivaxxers that those vaccinated are somehow “shedding” SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and sickening those around them, just remember three things. First, it’s nothing more than a resurrection of a very old antivaccine exaggeration tarted up to be utterly ridiculous. Second, the claim relies on such tenuous basic science that I hereby sentence any physician or scientist who repeats the claimed scientific rationale for this lie to remedial biology and molecular biology. Finally, there is no clinical or epidemiological evidence to suggest that shedding of spike protein even happens at a high level, much less that it can sicken the unvaccinated, mess up women’s menses, cause miscarriages, and render men and women infertile. This is all disinformation designed to “turn the tables,” nothing more.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

149 replies on “Shedding: An antivax trope resurrected for COVID-19 vaccines”

blood clotting problems, miscarriages, stillborns, infertility, strokes, heart attacks, autoimmune diseases, and death, just to name a few

One might wonder at the rest of the list. Dandruff? The heartbreak of psoriasis? Impacted cerumen?

” zionist/ jesuit/ masonic masters…. nazi scientist..”
(sic) and holy crap!
re nurses:
quite a few anti-vax nurses around

It’s always the Jews. Even when the nutters list Nazis, it’s the Jews. Why should they give up on the reliable, centuries old, pogrom spurring incitements of history?

To paraphrase Terry Pratchett, just because one is a member of a caring profession doesn’t mean one isn’t also a nasty, narrow minded bigot.

Oh, my. It’s going to be a dreadful mess. Holy talk about catching the boundary layer hydrodynamic ripplification amplification syncronization and shreddin’ization. Dude. Alabama is here to save the day, to show y’all* the way:

*Oof. I’ll bet that is how it already is in the rest of the US. Isn’t it. That name though.

“…and who knows where else in the body it is being shed from.”

— Dr. Palevsky, it hurst when I pee.

— Ah ha! Spike protein.

“or miscarriages in men ”

That may have happened with some of the first superclone soldiers which included genes of hermorphroditic Sireens.

I still don’t have a clear picture of how much of the spike protein translated from the vaccine mRNA ever actually makes it out of any cell intact. Lots of it is chopped up into peptides and presented on MHC. It isn’t even clear to me that any of the protein is presented or escapes intact.
Both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines code for spike protein locked in pre-fusion conformation by addition of a couple of strategically placed proline molecules (sure can cram a description of the end result of a lot of amazing scientific work into a simple sentence!). Again I’m not totally clear on this but I believe that prevents the protein from gaining access to cells other than immune cells that clean up rubbish. As I think I understand it, the free spike protein could bind to ACE2 but because it is locked in pre-fusion it can’t go any further.

Has spike protein actually been found in the anus and saliva? That’s a weird choice of words – why not feces and saliva or anus and mouth?. Certain sufficiently intact viral RNA to detect with PCR has been found in people with COVID-19. I’d believe protein still attached to virus particles is found, but I’d need to be convinced spike protein in vaccinated people has been found.

Stinson comes across as a thoroughly despicable pile of protein!

Post menopausal women who start bleeding (if they indeed are) should be thoroughly investigated for Ovarian and cx cancer. My mother-in-law who had Alzheimer’s said she was menstruating and I laughed blaming her dementia. She had ovarian cancer and died a few months later.

I heartily approve of the advice to “stay the fuck away from people who were vaccinated”.

If you’re an antivax dimwit who is deliberately avoiding immunization against Covid-19 and other vaccine-preventable diseases and thus is a vector for pathogens, please stay as far away from me as possible.

Maybe I should get one of those “I’ve been vaccinated” t-shirts to encourage antivaxers to keep their distance. It would be at least as effective as wearing garlic to ward off vampires.

The hat pictured in the linked article is way cool, but impractical for summer wear.

You sound like someone I would have no trouble staying away from LOL
My son has a severe peanut allergy ,maybe everyone who eats peanut butter should stay inside and let him live freely?
Or maybe I teach him to live safely in a world full of peanuts? Or nuts like you Who obviously don’t have enough faith and their “fda approved for emergency” brand new vaccination that should keep you safe from the virus with a 99.7% recovery rate.
So don’t worry honey people will be staying far far far away from you ha ha

Aren’t most day cares, pre-schools and elementary schools peanut-free these days to protect kids with peanut allergies who are too young to know what not to eat?

And aren’t there new immunotherapies available to eliminate the dangerous peanut allergy reaction? A guy I know from college has been working his kid though immunotherapy/exposure therapy for his (many, severe) food allergies, and while it’s taken years the kid is now clear on a lot of foods that could have killed him before.

Also, the “99.7%” survival rate doesn’t include Long COVID, or any other other long term damage.

The “child with peanut allergies” seems to be the new “girlfriend in Canada” for the antivaxx fear-mongers.

JustaTech, so far, there’s only one immunotherapy available for food allergies, and it only works for peanut allergy at this time. Everything else is experimental.

Peanut allergy is not contagious, so there is no reason to avoid contact. COVID 19 is, so avoiding contacts will help.

you need not worry.
for one, the traditional vaccination products does not actually stop transmission or contraction, thats just Hollywood movie claptrap (you know how the portray vaccines to be god shots?, yeah that’s incorrect, and not real world reality). It might help one become more asymptomatic in response to a virus, but that possible route is still not understood and there are much safer ways of becoming asymptomatic to something. Certain industries have this sneaky way of taking something that exists in nature, or in the human body, and synthetically replicating it then socially engineering populations to be dependent on their mechanism while they minimize the importance of the original mechanisms they sort to replicate and reproduce in real world environments.

The mRNA technology doesn’t stop transmission or contraction either, and mRNA is like computer software on a genetic level, its not really anything like a vaccine, its more related to gene therapies.

Here is some scientific perspective in regards to microbes and viruses which should help put your mind at ease, unless one has been socially engineered to be terrified of “germs”. Currently your body harbors trillions of microbes, viruses, a sizable portion being viruses. So at the end of the day, it makes little sense being terrified of one virus, that’s more of a marketing technique to terrify individuals into religious fanaticism type product culture. This sort of fear induced marketing methodology is seen across many industries.

You don’t need to be scared…unless you’re sick, and by sick, I mean systemic deterioration, which usually comes from over indulgence in poor quality diet, lack of exercise and harmful relationships with drugs, just to name a few.

With that said, anything I say probably won’t calm you, and I have a feeling my knowledge and or experience in the area will do little to inspire you to understand things more clearly, as I get a feeling I stumbled onto a website that is more about product fanboyism then facts or truth.

Fanboyism is a toxic product culture where an individual or group can not see reason about a specific product regardless of the truth or facts presented to them. Its Brand religion.

anyway have a good one


…the traditional vaccination products does not actually stop transmission or contraction…

Demonstrably false. If vaccines didn’t stop transmission then those too young to be vaccinated and those who are immunosuppressed would constantly be getting these diseases. They aren’t.
This claim is an old, warmed over, bit of antivaxx propaganda.

Smallpox is gone. How this is possible if vaccines do not prevvery ent spreading of viruses. The diets did not change, I assure you. People in developing world have very simple diet.
MRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. Gene therapy is fixing a gene, you know. Can tell us the gene involved.
There are good and bad germs. If you really like germs, try to contact leprosy. (Armadillos spread it.) And tell us what diet cured you,

Dr Jen Gunter took this on with a post on the 20th “The COVID-19 vaccine is a vaccine, not a spell.” She explains how someone else’s vaccination can’t mess with your period, and how in general being around other menstruating people doesn’t mess with your period, and that “cycle synchronization” isn’t actually a thing.

It is nice to see the science-based medicine community come at this from several angles.

Dr Jen Gunter “The COVID-19 vaccine is a vaccine, not a spell.”

Reading these people’s complaints I was indeed expecting one of them claiming to have been transformed into a newt by a vaccinated person.

And these people vote.


anti-vaxxers should be just thrilled about today’s decision to re-instate the J&J vaccine with just a warning:

I’m not an anti-vaxxer. I could give a rats ass about the bullshit on both sides. I just reserve the right to pause a year or two before receiving an experimental gene modifying injection, that permanently alters the immune response, without data for both short and long-term consequences, and it doesn’t kill the targeted virus …because they’re not vaccines.

The “trials” are scheduled through 2023. Only non-manditory emergency usage has been granted.

Were any of you ( the “vaccinated”) informed of the experimental classification of the “vaccine”, it’s contents, with a clear explanation how the injected solution uses mRNA (Messenger RNA) composed of non-human genetic material to PERMANENTLY MODIFY YOUR tRNA (transfer RNA)?

Did they explain how the mRNA molecule is immediately vulnerable to destruction by your natural immune response? No? So how will it work if your natural immune system destroys the mRNA molecule?

Well then, in order to protect the fragile mRNA strands WHILE THEY ARE BEING INSERTED INTO YOUR DNA, they are coated with PEGylated LIPID NANO-PARTICLES (LNPs), or lipid nanoparticles that contain polyethylene glycol (PEG)2.

No big deal…what does that mean? Your immune system now believes it must permanently, constantly, forever, produce a new protein that “theoretically” coats the spike proteins of the virus (the golf-tee spikes). This regenerative modification to your DNA is always “on” …
a permanent mutation by design. Stable? Nothing could go wrong there. OH YEAH, IT DOESN’T KILL THE VIRUS.

If you consented to the “shot”, you have waived any liability or wrong doing by the pharmaceutical companies, medical practitioners … on down the line.

If you should die or suffer debilitating injuries related to your participation and receiving these experimental vaccines, disability and life insurance are likely voided. Better get that verified! Because, once you’ve been genetically altered, that’s it. Thank you brave sheeple.

With a CDC survival rate on par with, or better than, the flu, I’m going to trust THAT science.

CDC COVID-19 age specific survival % rates:

0-19 years old, 99.997 percent;

20-49 years old, 99.98 percent;

50-69 years, 99.5 percent;

70 years old or older, 94.6 percent

Let’s all check in 12 -19 months and comoare notes.

All true, so why have you been “vaccinated”?

Orac is wasting a lot of time writing up all of the anti-vaxxer tropes. As one can see, it is sufficient to lay out some bait and the anti-vaxxers will do all the writing for him. Of course editing is still required to correct the grammar, spelling and punctuation of these submissions from the foaming-at-the-mouth brigade.

As soon as people start their post with: “I’m not an anti-vaxxer”, one can be sure there will follow a ‘but’, which shows they bring up all kind of stuff an anti-vaxxer will say.

@ Renate

“As soon as people start their post with: “I’m not an anti-vaxxer”, one can be sure there will follow a ‘but’, which shows they bring up all kind of stuff an anti-vaxxer will say.”


I’m still waiting for an anti-vaxxer that claims that he’s not anti-vaxxer, does not deny the science, “but” believes it’s the right of people to commit suicide, even on a political level. Some kind of “yeah… stupidity is a human right”.

I tend to fit into that category. I just see that most (if not all) anti-vaxxers do not. It’s a bit depressing.

But I do not endorse people endangering others against all evidence while pretending to defend them. It’s that last bit that annoys the hell out of me. That white knight syndrome…

@rs, “I’m not antivax, but…” is the new “I’m not racist, but…”

Were any of you ( the “vaccinated”) informed of the experimental classification of the “vaccine”, it’s contents, with a clear explanation how the injected solution uses mRNA (Messenger RNA) composed of non-human genetic material to PERMANENTLY MODIFY YOUR tRNA (transfer RNA)?

Well, no we weren’t told this.
Because this is false. mRNA doesn’t modify tRNA. Ever.

The “transfer RNA” transfers an aminoacid to add it to the protein chain being synthesized by the ribosomes, following the nucleic acid sequence provided by the mRNA.
None of these will alter the DNA.

The rest of your rant is equally wrong.

What a load of hooey!

What about SARS-CoV-2? It is itself essentially mRNA, though it isn’t translated all in one piece. It uses host cell machinery to make a bunch of subgenomic mRNAs, each of which is translated to protein(s) required by the virus. Every virus either is or causes to be make one or more non-human mRNAs. Do they persist forever? Do they alter tRNA? How does tRNA distinguish a “self” mRNA from a foreign mRNA? (hint – it doesn’t). Some viruses do cause to be made siRNAs (small interfering RNAs) but those are something very different from mRNA and the vaccines don’t cause them to be made. Anyway, not too long after host cells begin producing spike protein and present peptides from it at the surface of the cells, those cells are going to be identified by immune cells as infected and killed off.

The immune system doesn’t make something that “coats” the spike protein. It makes antibodies that bind to specific sites of the spike protein. It learns to do the very same thing when exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 virus itself. There is essentially permanent “modification,” after a fashion, of the DNA of immune cells. That’s how they “learn” and “remember.” Again, that happens with every antigen the adaptive immune system encounters.

I had the spike proteone build up in my eyes and one of them did pop out but, hey, we got this really cool button.

Alleging you are not anti-vaccine would be a lot more convincing if you did not then follow by a litany of anti-vaccine tropes that this blog has addressed in the past. Use the search box to find out the discussions where our host explains that mRNA vaccines do not modify your DNA. And describing vaccines given safely to over a hundred millions of people as “experimental” is very unconvincing.

Your immune system isn’t producing the protein. It responds to it, and that’s not long term, though memory cells stay behind.

Dismissing the risks of COVID-19, a disease that killed over 600,000 people in the U.S. alone, also isn’t convincing.

MRNA and tRNA are different molecule. TRNA is not altered.
Immune system does not destroy mRNA, it goes into the cell, where immune system does not operate. MRNA has a short half life, because it is a messenger molecule. I would produce too much protein otherwise. It has been made more resilient by modification.
Your fatality rate is wrong US has had 600000 deaths. Interesting, is it not ? And do you want to kill your granma ? Old people has right to life.

I am just a layperson. It is difficult to know who to trust when you’re not an expert in these fields, and I like to listen to various sides of an argument before making a conclusion.

My personal approach is that I will be taking the vaccine, but I will be refusing an mRNA based vaccine. The technology sounds great. It has definite advantages over traditional approaches. However, to the best of my knowledge, it has never been licensed in humans before, and the long-term safety is unknown. The first question I had after reading about the mRNA approach was for how long my cells would be manufacturing these spike proteins. I couldn’t find an answer, and it didn’t seem to me to be something I should have any difficulty finding an answer to. If anyone knows the answer rather than guessing, please link me to some solid evidence for this.

So which camp does that make me fall into – partial anti vaxxer? I don’t think it’s helpful to use the term, really – certainly, it’s unlikely to change minds around hesitancy. I’ll be going old school on the basis of the information I have so far, but I wish the mRNA approach well.

The first question I had after reading about the mRNA approach was for how long my cells would be manufacturing these spike proteins.

Your cells are not producing spike protein. The mRNA vaccines are used to train the immune system to recognize it.

But anyway, one would hope that the body would produce spike-protein antibodies whenever presented with the antigen, but it’s kind of early in the game to know how long the immune memory will last.

Whenever I see the phrases “antivax,” “antivaccine,” “science deniers” and the like, I immediately conclude the article is yet more of the up-is-down propaganda by the “there can be no debate” contingent of pseudo-intellectual frauds and establishment flacks who are pretty much always dead wrong and have no understanding about science and its methodology.

Either they have a vested political or financial interest, are shills working under inducement, are scientifically illiterate but think they’re “sciency” (holding a liberal-arts degree such as sociology or philosophy or communications), and/or are misguided.

Nope, debate is good. If it’s in the scientific sense of presenting competing studies and then ripping the methodology to pieces.

On the other hand, anti-vaxxers idea of a debate is to turn up with Janice the cleaner and Bill the binman and buttonhole the CEO of a national business with their ideas on financial sustainability.

” Nope, debate is good.”

Critics of SBM- including anti-vaxxers- like to characterise it as being no debate, people walking in lock step, no disagreement allowed, etc. whilst truly consensus is arrived at through a process that is fueled by debate, argument and eventually, reaches consolidation. Studies illustrate facts and opponents often tear them to shreds by presenting their own data and critiquing methodology**.
Trolls at RI describe sceptics/ SBM as a cult-like phenomenon where no dissent is permitted when science IS basically questioning or adding to the present day state of knowledge and supporting your position with DATA in journals and elsewhere. Asking testable questions and showing how the data supports them..

Right now, part of this process was illustrated concerning the J&J vaccine and rare side-effects: it wasn’t cut-and-dry but involved careful consideration of the numbers and debate about how to address the issue in terms of risk/ benefit analyses and public messaging. Several people on the committee disagreed with the final outcome which passed with a majority of votes 10-4-1. It was quite transparent and not lockstep at all. ( EMA and CDC)

What trolls/ anti-vaxxers/ alties carp about is that when consensus has been arrived at through research, debate and argumentation and it runs contrary to their pet notions (Vaccines cause autism ) they act as if no debate has ever transpired and it was up to them to NOW introduce it when it was addressed LONG AGO
If you claim expertise you should know how this works…

** two psychologists at the same U in Canada argued in journals about the nature of mental imagery but not in person for a long time. .

I also get the feeling that antiscience/antivaxx people probably have a vested interest in spreading nonsense.

When I read “propaganda” or “pseudo-intellectual fraud,” I figure that the comment is by a paid shill who needs to make at least 16 posts about how experts are dumb, before his bosses let him go home for the day . Hope you enjoy the ramen in your basement.

Paid by whom? On the one hand you have multi BILLIONaire Pharma & Biotech companies subsidized by the government, excused from ANY liability, Corporate paid for PR, government paid for PR and staggeringly obscene future profits for said Pharma octopi. On the other hand you have regular folks who care about the health of their loved ones. WHO pays these regular folk from every stripe, age, color & political ideology on the planet? Propaganda lol, Bill Gates(personally) has invested $100,000,000 into PR campaigns lauding himself, his ideas and his “philanthropy.” So tell us who is paying people to question/criticize government and corporations lol?

Whenever I see the phrases “antivax,” “antivaccine,” “science deniers” and the like, I immediately conclude the article is yet more of the up-is-down propaganda by the “there can be no debate” contingent of pseudo-intellectual frauds and establishment flacks who are pretty much always dead wrong and have no understanding about science and its methodology.

Either they have a vested political or financial interest, are shills working under inducement, are scientifically illiterate but think they’re “sciency” (holding a liberal-arts degree such as sociology or philosophy or communications), and/or are misguided.

Whenever I see someone griping about accurate characterizations of antivaxers and other science denialists while ignoring the science itself, I dismiss them as tone trolls.

Do you know the definition of an “AntiVaxxer”? Let me tell you. They are mothers who’s healthy baby died of “SIDS”, just days after the untested, deadly infant vaccines. Or the mother who watches her vibrant, healthy toddler, descend into a Zombie, just days after the killer vaccines. Or the family who’s pretty, smart young cheerleader teen, becomes permanently paralyzed, after the deadly, designer Gardasil Vaccine, that has been banned in Asia. I can go on, and on and on. I am one of those mothers! No one has given me a cent. I have tried to warn as many families as I can. And now, hundreds of thousands of adults, are experiencing what I went through, with their family members. We feel obligated to get the truth out. The bought and paid for MSM, and newspapers are lying, as usual, to all of you. The Pharma-Cartel is immune from any liability, They can put what ever the hell they want in the vaccines, and make money, and get away with murder. So you MF’S, who keep putting down “AntiVaxxers”. Shut the hell up, and try to do something to protect humanity, or go to hell along with the Pharma-Cartel & MSM!.

I noticed that you called autistic children zombies. Not a very nice thing to do. Of course, vaccines do not cause autism or SIDS
Gardasil is not banned in Asia (an internet ad):
Daily Fail rants against Gardasil:
I presume they did not get enough money.
Robert Kennedy Jr is suing Merck on Gardasil:
So where is lack of liability ?

So much wrong in such a short space.
Vaccines are thoroughly tested before scheduling.
Vaccines do not cause autism.
Vaccines do not cause SIDS.
Do a search on this blog. Suffice to say, Gardasil did not cause those problems.
Finally, vaccine makers are not exempt from being sued.

“men whose wives have had the vaccine sometimes wake up covered in bruises.”

So…the vaccine causes domestic violence, apparently.
(I know that’s not what’s being said, but it’s frankly more plausible than the witchcraft–er, hypothesis–being advanced.)

I’m gonna make a “Got Spike Protein?” Tshirt and wear it to the next anti-vax rally and livestream those fools scrambling.

And a shirt sporting “Got Spike-Quantum 5G Entangled Loop-Protein?” might keep both advarsarial sides a few more feet away from me.

It induces ******* and depletes the bodies’ reserve of iron and magnesium. And blood. Lots and lots of blood sometimes, really.

“Oh! … and we also have a train to catch…”

I mean, you know that scene in The Shining where all the vaxxed spike-shedders got into the elevator together because the government said it was safe?? And then the elevator opened up and

I’ll be going to a Japanese place to celebrate 3 weeks of being totally inundated with spike proteins ( J&J; SO’s Pfizer 5 weeks). Maybe I’ll order sea urchin.
Looks about right.

lNumberWang- do the American contributors know of conkers, the shells of which are spiky? I was a fanatic player in my early school years, in London, post war: now banned. Can we include horse chestnuts in this analogy ?

Maybe we can spread the term ‘conker’ across the Atlantic to the New World. It would make a change from American terminology travelling in this direction. ?

Unsurprisingly, another antivaxer joining in claims that Covid-19 vaccinated people are radiating Toxic Spike Proteins that impair the menstrual function of hapless women in their vicinity is that “objective pro-vaccine rational scientist” himself, James Lyons-Weiler.

L-W on Twitter:

“So many reports of aberrant menstruation following COVID19 vaccination and from women around people who have had the vaccination…”

Apparently there is nothing so nutty in the realm of antivax that it prevents L-W from leaping aboard the crazy train.

It seriously sounds like they’re assuming the vaccine causes demonic possession or such.

Surely this horrible Stinson character cant be still working as a nurse? More than enough grounds for sacking.

There are anti-vax nurses- actually, there is a famous one who enables a well known woo-meister, Luanne Pennisi ( see Metropolitan Health website), and when New York State advocated for H1N1 vaccines, a group of nurses materialised to oppose the government. I’m not sure if they are still active today but I imagine advocates like them will speak up as vaccine mandates, including those for school / university attendance proliferate.
Universities are mandating Covid vaccines for September.

FWIW, the Chronicle of Higher Education lists ca. 85 colleges and universities from Yale and Stanford on down that have announced that vaccination against Covid-19 will be required next term. Curiously, one of the columns in their table is color coded to indicate which candidate won the last presidential election in the institution’s home state–and only 11 of the entries are red. Do red states just not have colleges?

I suspect universities that think the state may react legislatively to an attempt to mandate would be less likely to mandate. This pandemic, sadly, has been politicized.

That said, it’s still very early. Rutgers – the first to address this – just announced its mandate in very late March, and some universities have lengthy decision making procedures. I’m not sure what the picture will be when we end.

That’s Metropolitan Wellness .com
Various stories 2009 about nurses opposition to H1N1 jab Times Union

Stinson is dead wrong about the vaccinated causing health problems in other people through shedding of Covid spike proteins.

No no no…the vaccinated are shedding “toxins and endocrine disruptors”.

This revelation comes from Amandha Dawn Vollmer, a Canadian holistic “mompreneur” and naturopathic degree holder, whose YumNaturals Emporium in Ontario dispenses DMSO and other natural remedies.

Vollmer made the news awhile back when her store (apparently then called Yummy Mommy Emporium) banned masks and urged customers to bring over their coughs and fevers, saying that so-called infectious particles are actually produced by the body healing itself. None of that silly germ theory for her!

What we really need to worry about according to Vollmer are “quackzeens” and the “quackzinated”. She has wonderful videos online explaining this stuff which I’m afraid is a bit over my head. Vollmer knows when her brain has latched onto the true facts about Covid-19 vaccines destroying fertility and culling humanity. She can tell, because her heart starts racing.

And yours will too.

… Mommy Emporium) banned masks and urged customers to bring over their coughs and fevers, saying that so-called infectious particles are actually produced by the body healing itself.

I weep for the species.

The lady in the first video said that miscarriages are up FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT, apparently just from the (formerly) pregnant women being around the recently-vaccinated. That’s pretty huge and you’d think it would be very difficult to keep something like that covered up.
Also, why doesn’t she just let her baby nurse instead of spending the whole video pushing him away?

Nic Lynn Stinson appears to be the same person as one Nicolle Wagner-Stinson, former Director of Nursing at a nursing home in Ilion, NY, who plead guilty to “covering up sexual abuse and neglect” there, in 2015.
Since then, she has done “work in web development from home”, found Jesus and been “called to ministry” as a Life Coach, authored two books (yes, two) — Girl, Let’s Read Your Bible Notes. and Girl, Let’s Pray and Give Thanks — both available from Amazon. And, oh yes, not only claims great success as an entrepreneur, but the ability to coach you, no matter what your background, to “get to the point of earning six and seven figures.”

She is the founder of Typists At Home, Cash N Color, and the 10 Dollar Life Changer.. Over the years, the rising marketing expert has helped hundreds of women walk away from corporate America and build their businesses. She has also successfully worked with entrepreneurs, stay-at-home mothers, and other aspirants in the business field. At present, Nicolle Stinson is making a significant buzz in the digital marketing scene for helping many entrepreneurs establish their names. Through Instagram and Facebook branding and other specific strategies, she has helped many people get to the point of earning six and seven figures. The proud coach takes pride in having been part of the success of many entrepreneurs. “Building a profitable brand or business is 100% possible no matter your background,” says Nicolle Stinson. She believes that having the right mindset and support will ensure ultimate success. This belief is not unfounded. In fact, her belief stems from a personal experience that has proved that success in business or career does not look into where the business owner or entrepreneur comes from.

I take it she’s been too busy with all that to do any nursing recently — like, say, since 2015 — in addition to following the commands of Jesus to smite the zionist jesuit masonic nazi gay retard dche satanist pedopbiles [sic] in their dumb-as-fk freak show face masks. Praise the Lord!

In the hopes of establishing that the surname Stinson ain’t all bad, here’s a video clip featuring the Stinson brothers of Minneapolis: the late, great Bob Stinson on lead guitar, with little brother Tommy on bass.

Oooh. Maybe that’s why she goes by “Nic Stinson” instead of Nicolle Stinson, in order to make it less obvious who she is…

But, that would be too obvious. And Nic ? No trailing ‘k’?? Maybe I’m dropping some pronouns here but ‘Nic’ makes me tag female or that looks female.

She wanted people to know… It’s a sign, just as sure as Snowden’s missing bridgepiece on his glasses. There must be something really rediculous coming up that has yet to be uncovered.

Rich Scopie- thanks for that very interesting information. It was a very effective rumour ( of it’s banning) since the several schools I taught in at this time , before retirement, certainly prohibited conkers for health and safety reasons and the awful debris in the playgrounds. I used to try and inform my pupils ( in October when they fell to ground) how the game used to be played and the various methods of hardening the conkers.

I was on another site, I think it was Jezebel, reading about Naomi Wolf’s batshit crazy anti-vax batshit craziness about women and Covid-19 vaccines.

Women were commenting that they had gotten one of the vaccines and their next period was earlier/longer/heavier/more painful than usual. The consensus among the women was that it could be a coincidence, it could be perimenopause, or it could be a side effect, but they weren’t sorry they got the vaccine. And they’ve all experienced stranger things since getting their first period. (Amen, sisters)

What if it’s making other proteins, can you prove it isn’t? As you say in the closing, said proteins could actually make it out of the body (and there are toxic proteins out there). Sounds like a concession at that point. I’m left unconvinced you really know what the vaccines do.

Yes. There is no biochemical mechanism for the COVID-19 vaccine to make any other protein because the mRNA in the vaccine can only make the protein that it is designed to make. This is Molecular Biology 101.?

What if it makes little green men from Mars?

That is about as likely, given it is an mRNA vaccine and can only code for a single protein, the spike protein.

What if reading your posts causes brain damage? Your lack of a denial seems like a tacit admission that it is possible.

It wouldn’t be viral shedding, thats silly, but you would have to forgive some for thinking it looks like viral shedding as in the real world they may look like they are the same. It would be more likely to be something like exosome-mediated transfer of nucleic acids, also known as microvessicle shedding.
Proximity vector of harm was observed in mRNA vaccine clinical trial study.

So those that are saying its live virus “shedding” are both right and wrong.
The media though…”the billionaires narrative”, they are spoon feeding you deceptive narratives to control how you think and feel. be cautious. You are being socially engineered into a frenzy.

People with legitimate concerns and real world observations, and information, shouldn’t be your enemy (like they would have you think), they should be your ally.
This isn’t a time to be so easily divided, but they surely will utilise that division to distract you all.

have a good day.

Exosome shedding ? How exosomes could go out of the body ?
Vaccine scientists are not billionaires, so you are using a cheap trick to avoid thinking.

It would be more likely to be something like exosome-mediated transfer of nucleic acids, also known as microvessicle [*sic*] shedding.

That’s an intracellular signaling mechanism. Where do these people come from?

“You are being socially engineered into a frenzy.”

Sorry, this week’s Irony Meter-Busting Award has already been handed out.

Well, Pfizer says the vaccines can cause shedding, or that it’s a possibility. Here’s a link to the clinical protocol for the Pfizer study Page 67 & 68 has the relevant sections about exposure of pregnant women to study participants.

“An Exposure During Pregnancy occurs if …a male family member or healthcare provider who has been exposed to the study intervention by inhalation or skin contact then exposes his female partner prior to or around the time of conception.”

You really are silly. That’s a generic definition of exposure, a regulatory requirement. It’s not an “admission” by Pfizer that its vaccine can cause shedding.??‍♂️

Someone tried that one me today, claiming the “study” proves someone actually got infected by being around someone vaccinated. Given that study protocols are generally written before you actually, you know, do the study, we seem to have another case of time travelling vaccine effects, where the vaccine can impact the unvaccinated before anyone is actually given the vaccine.

Here’s Tafa mouthing the latest faux outrage — selective and misunderstood quoting from Pfizer’s Phase 1, 2, 3 clinical trials protocol.

“Moreover, the “study intervention” means the vaccine. These sentences refers to, for example, healthcare workers who might have dropped some of the vaccine on their skin. The protocol requires their data to be collected. “

They don’t fear the vaccine. They hate it. The better it works and the more that get it, the more they hate it. They’re circling the wagons around their wobbly worldview. The only fear involved is that within the holy FUD trinity they worship.

Dr. Gorski,

Thank you for your opinion!

First of all, the label ANTI VAXXERS sounds extremely rude, and is a pure illustration of a cancel culture and culture of hatred. Please do not use this de-humanizing way to express your personal disapproval to many thinking people, some of them may be your patients. The term is de-humanizing because the human is a free entity with rights given by God. Nobody can take these rights away.

Secondly, the answer to the question “is it possible vaccinated people “shedding” and causing illness in the unvaccinated” is perfectly explained in the C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020_Pfizer_BioNTech, p 67 – 68, and is called “environmental exposure”. Below are examples of environmental exposure during pregnancy:
• A female family member or healthcare provider reports that she is pregnant after having been exposed to the study intervention by inhalation or skin contact.
• A male family member or healthcare provider who has been exposed to the study intervention by inhalation or skin contact then exposes his female partner prior to
or around the time of conception.

It is clear from the protocol that the vaccine producer wants to follow up with such cases which means the producer does NOT rule out possibility of shedding.
This is enough stable ground for assumption for shedding to be made, as Dr. Palevsky had done, especially after the significant number of SAEs reported by unvaccinated people in proximity with vaccinated.

As a responsible and sane member of the society, I am kindly asking you and other people like you – please do not turn medicine into ideology.

DDT, a chemical for killing bugs, was discovered by the Swiss chemist Paul Hermann Müller in 1939. DDT was used in the second half of World War II to limit the spread of the insect-born diseases malaria and typhus among civilians and troops. Müller was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1948 “for his discovery of the high efficiency of DDT as a contact poison against several arthropods”. Then, it was discovered that DDT and other pesticides cause cancer. It was banned by Stockholm Convention.

Please pay attention to the fact, the person who discovered DDT is a holder of Nobel Prize.

Just imagine how the people challenging his discovery would be called in his days!

So, please stop with the brainwashing and let us thinking and making decisions for ourselves and for our children.

Here is a link to the Pfizer Clinical Protocol.

Thank you, and may you and your loved ones be safe.

See my reply to Tafa:

That’s a generic definition of exposure, a regulatory requirement. It’s not an “admission” by Pfizer that its vaccine can cause shedding.??‍♂️

As for calling people “antivaxxers,” I say: If the name fits, use it.

Oh, and regarding DDT, see:

Given Nadya and Tafa’s very similar complaint, I sense a new antivaccine distortion crafted in response to pro-science people pointing out how ridiculous the claims of illness and menstrual irregularities being caused by “shedding” spike protein after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines are, from a scientific standpoint. Again, this is pretty generic language included in pretty much any clinical protocol.

First of all, the label ANTI VAXXERS sounds extremely rude, and is a pure illustration of a cancel culture and culture of hatred.


“Of these 117 groups, some explicitly call themselves ‘anti-vaxx’ or ‘anti-vaccine,’ while others have similar names as the group Facebook removed. Some groups are likely trying to avoid moderation by using more deceptive language, such as ‘V@xynes’ or ‘V@ccine.'”

There, there. It must be awful to have such a bad allergy to facts. I hope that you get over it.

Here’s a question to make you r head explode. Why does the evil Orac, who is (per your fantasies) devoted to propaganda and “brainwashing”, allow you to post here? Shouldn’t he be censoring your blasts of mighty truth (!!!!), which are so terribly powerful? Is Orac just too stupid to delete your posts, or are your posts not as powerful as you imagine?

“First of all, the label ANTI VAXXERS sounds extremely rude”

I refer to them as antivaxers, as ALL CAPS is shouting, and it’s more economical to spell the word with one x.

There’s nothing “rude” about the term antivaxer as it is accurate. True, it’s annoying to most antivaxers*, who prefer to hide behind evasions like “I’m pro-safe vaccine” and worry that the general public looks askance at those who are anti anything.

*but not Kent Heckenlively, who gleefully refers to himself as the “World’s #1 Antivaxxer”. If you’re going to embrace the Crazy, might as well go all-in.

The pathogen is extremely rare in the wild. The world’s reknowned research centers are still waiting for their curated and isolated samples- that are of course reproducible in human testing. The pathogen is like LGMs .. lots and lots of stories .. but no sightings.

The pathogen is like LGMs .. lots and lots of stories .. but no sightings.

Is Walmart having a sale on stupid this week? Here, Doug.

This has to be the most offensive and ignorant article I’ve ever read. First off, you have ZERO credibility and obviously knowledge with regard to medicine or health. And secondly, your argument is written like an immature mean girl in middle school. Incredibly catty and not science based, you have no place giving medical “advice”. You really should keep your belligerent and arrogant opinions to yourself. Thx

So tell me, then: What specific facts or scientific observations are wrong? Please be specific and back up your criticisms with citations from the peer reviewed literature. You might be surprised how receptive I am to strong scientific arguments. Can you provide any to show me where I went wrong?

She already showed you where you went wrong. You are catty and in no way harbor a natural-bourn cat. I would expect to answer follow up and

I notice that you haven’t point to any actual problem with the article that would suggest lack of credibility or lack of knowledge.

Kara: I hope the people who forced you to read this article are caught and punished. Forcing a child to read facts that hurt her feelings is a major felony.

If on the other hand, you volunteered to read this, I can only point and laugh at the idea that you think that your criticisms are worth the time of anyone not being paid to analyze and treat your issues

Dr. Larry Palevsky once told me that the only way to get them throat cancers was to bada bing bada boom with one of them sheddin’ yippy! vax getters. I wouldn’t say that he is in a position to know, or anything. But, I might be.

I was in complete disbelief when I saw this latest theory doing the rounds among antivaxxers. They just keep moving the goalposts and getting more ridiculous. Actually, it would be pretty cool if my husband’s and my vaccines were contagious and our boys could avoid the whole two needle pokes thing, but alas.

I have no medical background at all, but I am homeschooling this year and doing high school biology with my son. I joked and told him he could use my vaccination experience as a lab. Seriously, though, there is enough info in HS biology to see right through these antivax theories, and to be fascinated by MRNA technology.

Finally, an anecdote, FWIW: I use period tracking software and have for years. My period arrived right when expected and was no worse than usual after both doses of vaccine.

FriedWildApplePie asks: “Paid by who?”

Lawyers who are trying to make money off bogus claimed showed that you can buy (ex-doctor) Andrew Wakefield for about a half million dollars, but garden-variety antivaxxers are much cheaper. A mere $40,000 paid used-car salesman Darrell Issa to hold a “hearing” about vaccines. As for how cheap internet commenters are, I don’t have access to your paystub.

Already did. You clearly have never read a clinical trial protocol and don’t understand what you’re talking about.??‍♂️

Read the paragraph yourself. From it:
“The investigator must report exposure during breastfeeding to Pfizer Safety within 24 hours
of the investigator’s awareness, irrespective of whether an SAE has occurred. The
information must be reported using the Vaccine SAE Report Form. When exposure during
breastfeeding occurs in the setting of environmental exposure, the exposure information does
not pertain to the participant enrolled in the study, so the information is not recorded on a
CRF. However, a copy of the completed Vaccine SAE Report Form is maintained in the
investigator site file.”
It tells that investigator must report exposure during breastfeding. It does say that an exposure has happened.

Stop shooting at the messengers, like brain washed people do (JW’s, Sects) & discuss the info with proofs. Article wrote by David Gorski aka Orac. Over the last 20 years, his research has been FUNDED by the NIH (Fauci’s boss), MAKERS OF MODERNA VACCINE, Moderna vaccine is really a NIH-Moderna vaccine! Red flag, Conflict of interests!! ,

“Over the last 20 years, his research has been FUNDED by the NIH (Fauci’s boss)”

The NIH is one of the largest funders of medical research in the U.S. Being funded by them doesn’t represent a conflict of interest. Dr. Fauci is not involved in choosing who gets funded by the the NIH’s extramural research program.

The word “anti-vaxxer” thrown around here like confetti, shows weak “in the box” thinking. How hard is it for some of you to understand many of us had no problems with all former vaccines, it’s these Covid vaccines that are the problem to us.

You all must have missed this report with your idea that the spike proteins can’t affect others.

“The confirmation is buried in page 67 in this section:

Exposure During Pregnancy or Breastfeeding, and Occupational Exposure

The phrase “Occupational Exposure” is used to refer to when people vaccinated come into contact with others that are not vaccinated (not in the study trial), such as medical professionals, friends and family.

Here is the smoking gun on Page 67 of the Pfizer trial doc: Exposure During Pregnancy

An EDP occurs if:

• A female participant is found to be pregnant while receiving or after discontinuing study intervention.

• A male participant who is receiving or has discontinued study intervention exposes a female partner prior to or around the time of conception.

• A female is found to be pregnant while being exposed or having been exposed to study intervention due to environmental exposure. Below are examples of environmental exposure during pregnancy:

• A female family member or healthcare provider reports that she is pregnant after having been exposed to the study intervention by inhalation or skin contact.

This is one I hoped was not true. It’s still to be examined.

Again I will go back to another question if all reports from lay people are rejected as “anti-vaxxer” nonsense, how will we even know.

All I know is there are tons of reports from people getting sick from being around the unvaccinated. I think those are ignored at our own peril.

You all must have missed this report with your idea that the spike proteins can’t affect others.

You must have missed the “reading” part of the blog.

“All I know is there are tons of reports from people getting sick from being around the unvaccinated. I think those are ignored at our own peril.”

Cool Freudian slip – you told the truth in spite of your best efforts.

“How hard is it for some of you to understand many of us had no problems with all former vaccines, it’s these Covid vaccines that are the problem to us.”

We get it. You only have a problem with vaccines that exist.

You have a huge blind spot here, that you assume people who question these Covid vaccines are against all vaccines. This is wrong. I took a tetanus and flu shot last year. I have no problems with safe vaccines. Many people who have problems with mRNA technology are fine with proven and safe vaccines.

Yes I slipped up, guess I gave you a gift with that typo, I meant vaccinated and well what if something is happening as women talk about their periods being altered and other symptoms. I notice on this board, that the default is, “we won’t listen to anyone who disagrees with us” and “everyone who talks about something that happens to them that goes against our narrative” will basically called an idiot and a liar. I dare say if something is happening or a shedding of some sort of spike proteins etc, your denial or refusal to examine anything will only make things worse.

I notice on this board [sic], that the default is, “we won’t listen to anyone who disagrees with us” and “everyone who talks about something that happens to them that goes against our narrative” will basically called an idiot and a liar.

Oh, quit whining. You’ve had plenty of substantive replies. Perhaps you weren’t expecting them. L-rd knows you haven’t responded in kind.

You should actually read the document:
“The investigator must report EDP to Pfizer Safety within 24 hours of the investigator’s
awareness, irrespective of whether an SAE has occurred. The initial information submitted
should include the anticipated date of delivery (see below for information related to
termination of pregnancy).”
You cite list of cases the investigator must report to Pfizer safety, if they happen.

I wonder what exactly would be “shed” with the technology described in this Johns Hopkins article concerning “self-spreading vaccines”?

From page 8: “Self-spreading vaccines are genetically engineered to move through populations like communicable diseases, but rather than causing disease, they confer protection. The vision is that a small number of individuals in a target population could be vaccinated, and the vaccine strain would then circulate in the population much like a pathogenic virus, resulting in rapid, widespread immunity…”

But I’m sure if anyone was experimenting with self-spreading vaccines, the humble masses would all know about it. Lol.

Nice of you to demonstrate that it was something floating around on Bookface, Ginny.

I don’t think I would like a method like that. What if some malformed packets really managed to gum things up? I can be pretty selfish. Say, I had this cure for something and I don’t release it to the world because the government would go “aren’t you that pothead? how do you have this cure” and kill me and the evil corporation witholding the cure that I stole it from would go “that’s the guy what stole our cure” and kill me. And, damnit, these spike-fingers from billions of vaccinated people are dicking that cure up and now there is some questionable handi-capable folding going on.

And a NWO reporter would somehow figure out truth THEY are hiding. He would find most secret of secrets open discussed in some internet site. Secrets are more secret than that.

Aarno, “secret”? Since when does Johns Hopkins publish articles about emerging “secret” technologies? I toyed with the idea it was a fake article, but if it is, someone sure went to a helluva lotta trouble. Looks legitimate to me…

Because you do not understand anything: I referred secret plans to use self spreading vaccines to humans.

You should be ashamed of yourself and I hope for you that you have no conscience. Because you do not know what exactly is happening and how innocent people are affected.
I had hoped for more than propaganda postulates, explaining your opinion, but you didn’t, you just put everyone thinking and questioning in the same pot with a degrading label, then devaluing everyone replying with a different perspective. That’s not helpful, constructive discussion, we know as much as before.
And yea that’s a style of people with no empathy and real concern for others, so I think it quite likely what has been suggested in regard to paid propaganda.
There are people who spend their precious private time on unbiased research to find out what’s a cause for concern, as we are talking about an experimental injection, not a vaccine.. and there are people promoting these injections who are getting paid for that obscene amounts of money.
No cause for questioning the form of current public debate, no?

So when there is anti virus propaganda, as happened before with other viruses, it’s all a true concern when someone comes into contact with an presumably infected person, especially for example with HIV when having broken skin / a small wound, but if it’s an engineered injection, which failed in all former trials and is administered to humans for the 1st time, the same doesn’t hold true?

There is no logic in anything you say there.

A. Innocent people are badly harmed by the virus. Lying to them about the vaccines that can protect them puts them at harm’s way. When Orac counters such lies, yes, he’s being compassionate. The antivaccine leaders lying to you are not.

B. Yes, unlike an actual virus, a vaccine that does not contain any live viruses cannot transmit between people. The post addressed this. I hope you read it.

I had hoped for more than propaganda postulates

That’s a rather infrequent turn of phrase (no G—le Ngrams, maybe 50 bona fide search results). One might wonder where ava13 picked it up.

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