Antivaccine nonsense

The ultimate antivax conspiracy theory

Toby Rogers takes big pharma conspiracy mongering to the next level, claiming it will cause an intentional economic crisis.

I’ve long argued that antivaccine beliefs are, at their heart, nothing but a big conspiracy theory, even going so far as to delineate what I consider to be the central conspiracy theory of the antivaccine movement. Indeed, I’ve gone further than that and argued that antiscience beliefs are always rooted in conspiracy theories. I was reminded of this one more time the other day by Toby Rogers, whose Substack is a reliable source of only the most bonkers antiscience conspiracy mongering, be it antivaccine, transphobic, or whatever. This reminder came in the form of two posts, Every step was designed to inflict maximum harm and The economic crisis we face.

If you want to see what I mean by conspiracy theory, the first post is instructive, while the second post weaves the reasons together into a fevered stew of nonsense that views scientists, physicians, governments, and the public health establishment not just as lax but as actively wanting to kill millions of people:

What’s striking about Covid is that every step was designed to inflict maximum harm:

  • Splicing HIV into a coronavirus (who even comes up with an idea that sinister!?).
  • Blocking access to hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
  • Removing NAC from the shelves.
  • No early treatment.
  • Respirators that kill 90% of patients.
  • Seeding nursing homes with Covid+ patients.
  • Blanket “Do Not Resuscitate” orders for the disabled.
  • “15 days to flatten the curve” that slowed the rate of natural immunity.
  • Closing schools for two years.
  • Masks that reduce oxygen.
  • Shutting down gyms to reduce exercise.
  • Keeping liquor stores open while closing the churches that host AA meetings.
  • Closing hiking trails, beaches, and parks thus preventing people from getting vitamin D.
  • Remdesivir and Paxlovid that are expensive, useless, and deadly.
  • The most toxic and deadly vaccines in history on a new platform that will never work.
  • Billions of dollars spent on propaganda to convince people to accept every step of this nefarious plan.
  • Firings, censorship, and blacklisting of critical thinkers.

Actual science was always ignored. Every action by government for four years degraded the health of the public. Covid is a world war, launched by the ruling class, against humanity.

See what I mean? Two of of the key elements of conspiratorial thinking are to see patterns in randomness and to attribute malign intent to this pattern, regardless of whether there is any evidence of malign intent or not; well, that, and to claim that the “truth” is being “suppressed,” as Rogers does in the last two bullet points. As for the rest, I’ve written about damned near all of those pieces of misinformation, such as the false claims that HIV was “spliced into” SARS-CoV-2. I don’t feel the need to address all those claims individually, as they are all nonsense, with the possible exception of the “flatten the curve” claim, which is not nonsense in the way that Rogers implies. (It’s nonsense in that in retrospect it should always have been obvious that a period of 15 days was never going to be sufficient to flatten the curve.) The point is that “they” (the “ruling class”) are not just malign; they actively wanted to kill millions of people, to launch a “world war” against all of humanity. Why? Who knows? As much as we might despise the ruling class, they are part of humanity too and can’t escape that.

More interesting to me is the reason for the war against humanity supposedly launched by the ruling class as described by Rogers in his other post. First, though, I was very interested in this part:

Last week I traveled to Connecticut to participate in a four-day writers’ retreat hosted by Jeffrey Tucker and the Brownstone Institute. It was amazing. Speakers presented on a topic or question for 15 minutes that was followed by a discussion for 15 minutes.

You might recall that the Brownstone Institute has been spreading antivax and right wing conspiracy theories ever since it was founded a couple of years ago by Jeffrey Tucker, the neo-Confederate activist who had helped organize the Great Barrington Declaration, that document advocating a eugenicist “let ‘er rip” approach to the pandemic to build up “natural herd immunity” as rapidly as possible by letting the virus circulate through the “healthy population” while claiming to have a strategy to “protect the vulnerable.” Never mind that they never actually had such a strategy other than platitudes used to browbeat public health officials and that “natural herd immunity” never would have worked as a strategy given how easily SARS-CoV-2 could evolve new variants to evade immunity from infection with previous variants.

Given its history, I should have guessed that the Brownstone Institute would be holding writers’ retreats, the better to help its propagandists hone their rhetorical skills, the better to fool those sympathetic to their ideology and/or lacking the knowledge of science and critical thinking skills to recognize their bullshit for what it is. It should therefore be no surprise that Toby Rogers’ “remarks” to the retreat, which is why he summarizes in his post, are bullshit of the highest, stinkiest order.

He begins by declaring:

The crisis of Covid is not just that the ruling class killed a lot of people.

The crisis of Covid is that the fundamental basis of our economy shifted from a positive-sum game to the worst negative-sum game in human history.

I’m sure my readers are all familiar with a zero-sum game, in which the gains of any participant are exactly balanced out by the losses of another or others. Similarly, a positive-sum game is a game in which the gains overall are greater than the sum of the losses. But what about negative-sum games? I think you can see where Rogers is going with this:

In a negative-sum game, the total losses of the participants exceed the total gains.

Wars are often cited as negative-sum games. The resources expended in terms of lives lost, destruction of infrastructure, and economic impact outweigh any potential gains.

Now let’s apply these definitions to our current situation.

Oh, goody. Let’s not and say we did. Unfortunately, Rogers can’t resist:

When our country was founded, white men participated in a positive-sum economy — free and equal exchange between sovereign citizens. With the civil war, the franchise was extended to people of color. With the gains of the civil rights movement in the twentieth century, that positive-sum economic game was extended to the whole of society.

Yes, Rogers, speaking to Brownstone, has a predictably blinkered view of American history that leaves out a lot, such as that the “free and equal exchange” he touts was never totally free, much less equal. He also seems to forget that whole bit about slavery, too, other than to seem to think that inequality magically disappeared after the civil rights movement and that the whole of society participated in this “positive-sum game.” I won’t dwell on that too much, because what comes next is the doozy:

Covid marks an abrupt shift from a positive-sum game to the most extreme negative-sum game in history. I take the point that this had been coming on for fifty years if not longer. But Covid marked the moment where the ruling class revealed their true intentions.

By Covid I mean, the development and release of SARS-CoV-2, the murderous hospital protocols, government edicts that blocked access to safe and effective medicines, and the creation of the most dangerous vaccines in human history.

Another characteristic of conspiracy theories is that their internal contradictions don’t seem to bother their believers. Think about it. If, as Rogers first claimed, the US had been enjoying this fantastical game in which the free market, consisting of the free and equal exchange of goods and services among sovereign citizens, was benefiting all (at least since the 1960s, I guess), then who is this “ruling class” and how could it possibly have the power to do what he claims next?

I mean, the power to do this:

Robert Kennedy Jr. actually figured out this shift right before Covid and I think it’s the most important economic insight of our lifetime.

At a speech at a fundraiser in Florida in early 2020 before we realized that Covid would be a thing, Robert Kennedy Jr. explained that Big Pharma globally makes about $50 billion a year from vaccines but then makes another $500 billion a year from treatment of vaccine injuries. This stunned me at first, but when I started to do the math I realized that he is right. We’ll return to this in a moment.

With Covid, Big Pharma basically doubled its money with another $50 billion a year in Covid vaccine revenue followed by another $500 billion a year from treatment of Covid vaccine injuries. That’s why Pfizer is going into the cancer treatment business for example.

See what I mean? This is how conspiracy theorists refute the idea that pharma doesn’t make a lot of money off of vaccines. To them, vaccines have always been a “loss leader,” produced to make people sick so that they require other products that big pharma does make a lot of money selling. Ingenious, right? Far be it from me to claim that pharmaceutical companies are any sort of paragons of virtue, but this is supervillain-level plotting so extreme that the producers of the James Bond or Marvel movies would probably find it too implausible to incorporate into the plot of one of their films.

You might respond, quite reasonably, that we have lots of evidence in the form of scientific studies showing that vaccines are safe and effective, but Rogers is read for that gambit of “suppression” of evidence:

Vaccines are an incredibly difficult topic to study.

  • The blacklisting and censorship are so severe that anyone who goes near this topic with an open mind is committing career suicide.
  • There are no double-blind, randomized controlled trials with a true saline placebo and so there are no proper meta analyses or systematic reviews of vaccines or the vaccine schedule.
  • The studies that do exist are low quality and contaminated by financial conflicts of interest.
  • I wrote an article about this problem a couple months ago titled, “Systematic review and meta-analysis are broken.”

It basically takes four or five years to read all of the pro studies and identify their weaknesses and then work through the alternative literature to find the censored studies, read the documents turned over via the Freedom of Information Act and in discovery in the courts, and to interview enough parents of vaccine injured children to understand the scope and dynamics of the problem.

Almost no one has the bandwidth to do that. It’s actually an interesting epistemological problem because the only people who are willing to take this on are parents of vaccine injured children and a handful of academics who are naïve enough to think that they can change the world — and then they get lynched by the drug cartel.

But if one does the hard yards one will see that autism, ADHD, autoimmune disorders including arthritis, deadly allergies, asthma, Alzheimer’s, childhood cancers, diabetes, eczema, seizure disorders, and sex dysphoria are vaccine injuries. The various studies that prove that are generally censored by Google (or de-ranked into oblivion) and so you have to use alternative methods and networks for finding them. All of these medical conditions require expensive treatments over a lifetime.

See what I mean? To Rogers, the reason that science doesn’t take seriously his ravings and all the bogus claims of harm from vaccines couldn’t possibly be because the scientific evidence not only doesn’t support such claims but in fact strongly refutes them or that he doesn’t understand the evidence. After all, he parrots the claim that there are no “double blind randomized controlled trials with a true saline placebo,” even though it’s easy to find a number of these trials just by searching PubMed and we all know that the COVID-19 vaccines were approved only after very large saline-controlled RCTs with over 70,000 subjects between the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trials in 2020.

While it is true that there are some vaccines in the childhood vaccine schedule that were not tested against saline, this was not the result of some conspiracy to “hide” how harmful they supposedly are. It was the result of simple clinical trial ethics, specifically the concept of clinical equipoise, which states that there must be genuine uncertainty over which group in an RCT will fare better or else the trial is unethical. As I described in detail last summer, if there already exists a licensed vaccine that is safe and effective preventing a given disease, it is not ethical to test a new vaccine against that disease versus placebo, because it would require that the control group be randomized to remain unprotected against that disease. (Also, saline is not the only valid placebo control.)

Finally, there is nothing that says that you can’t do a “proper meta-analysis” if there are no saline-controlled RCTs to examine. Scientists do this all the time with questions for which the primary evidence base is epidemiological or observational. Strength of evidence is ranked the same way that it always is. Basically, what Rogers is doing here is making excuses for why science doesn’t accept all the antivax claims of harm made by him and his fellow conspiracy mongers. The data are tainted by conflicts of interest (whether that’s true or not)! Big pharma attacks anyone who dares to look into this matter. It’s career suicide not to toe the line. Oh, and it’s not just pharma, but social media, the food industry, psychiatry, and the whole “biowarfare” industry that’s keeping you—yes, you!—from learning The Truth, with the result being an impending economic crisis that They will blame on You. They even created the pandemic to accomplish this!

The end result, according to Rogers:

Our economic system now is the opposite of liberalism. It’s the fulfillment of the dreams of the Third Reich. With CRISPR, the biowarfare industry can infinitely change the DNA and RNA of humans and viruses. They’re bad at it right now. But the temptation is too great, they will never stop playing God. 

Why hasn’t big business pushed back against this? Companies including Walmart, Apple, Ford, and Nike have a lot to lose from this widespread destruction of American society. My hunch is that it’s because the biowarfare industry has captured capital itself. Pandemics, chronic disease, and response is a growth industry — one of the only growth industries on Earth at this point. DNA is the new terra nullius to be conquered and colonized.

So first it was the childhood schedule, then Covid, and now the plan is for new pandemics as far as the eye can see.

That’s the system that we are fighting to overthrow.

See? Rogers can even manage to make up reasons why companies that, one would think, would not be down with this whole conspiracy because it would affect their profitability, would go along; that is, before he boringly parrots the same old antivax conspiracy theory that “They” will keep producing pandemics so that “They” can keep forcing you to take their vaccines.” (Seriously, antivaxxers, you need a new schtick at this point.)

Again, it’s so bad that not even Rogers’ devoted commentariat is all buying it, in part because what he is saying clashes with other parts of the antivax narrative, as this commenter points out:

Erm, should I tell him or you?

Covid, if “released” would have to go down as the weakest Dr. Badguy plot ever conceived! A terrifying IFR of 0.03! No, covid was simply a ruse of 24/7 news propaganda with a side order of one size fits all death certificates and a sprinkling of deadly hospital/nursing home protocols. Remember that annual influenza disappeared for two years, yep year after year, regular as clockwork, but for the period that “covid” came to visit it took a well deserved vacation.

The “badguys” will never release a deadly anything as, newsflash…it would get them too! Nice try though.

See what I mean? They’ve been told by antivax conspiracy theorists that COVID-19 was both a biowarfare agent but also that it is no more dangerous than a cold, that latter reason being one reason why they view COVID-19 vaccines as unnecessary.

In the end, though, the specifics of any given conspiracy theory (or theories) promoted by antivaxxers like Toby Rogers are not nearly as important as realizing that antivax is just one big conspiracy theory. This one is just one of the biggest ones I’ve seen. I’m half tempted to say that the only thing it lacks is aliens.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

52 replies on “The ultimate antivax conspiracy theory”

A. Note that his rewriting of history is even worse than you describe. He doesn’t date equality of people of color to the civil rights movement but to the end of the civil war.
Because Jim Crow wasn’t a thing for him, apparently.

B. If there’s such a conspiracy of silence, why were J&J blood clots and myocarditis recognized?

C. Do these people ever consider that big pharma consists of more than one company and they are not actually all friends? Note the patent lawsuits against both Moderna and Pfizer over covid-19 vaccines .

To them, vaccines have always been a “loss leader,” produced to make people sick so that they require other products that big pharma does make a lot of money selling.

That this destroys their conspiracy theory seems to be beyond their comprehension.
Firstly, governments require their citizens to be vaccinated. Secondly, many medical insurers give bonuses to their members for getting vaccinated. Discovery (my insurer) rewards me for getting the flu vaccine.
If the conspiracy was true, then governments and medical insurers would be acting against their own best interests. What could they gain from injurious vaccines?

Antivaxers commonly shriek about the nefariousness of a health insurer giving higher reimbursements to physicians who meet targets for having their patients vaccinated. This is supposed to indicate that docs are pushing vaccines solely for $$$.

What they can’t/won’t comprehend is why a health insurer would promote vaccination in the first place. Could it be that vaccinated patients are sickened less often by vaccine-preventable diseases, leading to lower health care bills and more profit for insurers? Nah.

Could Walmart, Apple, Ford and Nike (the companies Rogers singles out) have realized that their bottom line is improved by having customers whose lives were saved by vaccines? Nope, they’re complicit in mass depopulation because that’s great for profits. Nike especially, because not only dead people buy their shoes, but also patients in ICUs and with long Covid work out a lot while wearing Nikes. Duh.

It makes perfect sense if you’re a malevolent fool like Rogers.

It’s fairly common sense that if you hand over control over the government it will take that control to the furthest extent. This is what we see with childhood vaccine liability, and this is what we saw with the covid vax mandates. This isn’t a conspiracy theory. It’ just economics.

hand control over the government to any industry

It’s a very good thing the only places that has happened is the minds of libertarians and other weak-minded folks.

Childhood vaccines manufacturers have been given limited liability protection in a law supported by, at the time, manufacturers, medical associations, and plaintiffs. The program offers benefits to claimants (an easier process, no contingency fees, less things to prove) and to manufacturers (limited liability protection).

It is not clear why you think it’s government taking control to the furthest extent – it’s not that.

COVID-19 vaccine mandates were pretty limited. Most jobs were not covered by them. The federal government did try to put a vaccinate-or-test program for large employers, but another branch of government – the courts – stopped that. So that’s not an example of what you claim, either.

It is actually important to look at what actually happened or is happening before making claims like this.

“It’s fairly common sense that if you hand over control over the government it will take that control to the furthest extent”

It’s fairly common sense that if you hand control over to a bunch of religious right wingers, they’ll take that control to the furthest extent.


You obviously do not know much of the details of the Alabama case….it was a civil trial about the unauthorized destruction of embryos

@Mm: you don’t seen to know shit about it. Your implication is that
the hospital was behind the incident: not true.

The plaintiff couples’ frozen embryos had been cryo-preserved at the fertility clinic, which is located within a hospital. In December 2020, a patient of that hospital entered the fertility clinic’s cryo-preservation unit and opened one of the tanks in which frozen embryos are stored. These embryos are stored at sub-freezing temperatures, so when the patient put his hand in and grabbed some of the embryos, he burned himself and dropped the embryos, which hit the ground and were destroyed.

Not the agency providing the service. Attacking their lack of security might have been justified, but that’s not it.

The most asinine bit of all this is the equating of frozen embryos to children: that certainly appeals to many people, which is likely why the court made that ruling, but doesn’t make sense in any reasonable way.

“The most asinine bit of all this is the equating of frozen embryos to children”

Which was the part I figured most people would find the most impactful. Not Mm though….

Many things look like a conspiracy to the outside observer, and yet they lack the central planning and simply coalesce and happen by themselves. There are winks and nods exchanged, lies repeated, money is being made, and pretense of reality is being created. People exposing it would be cast out of the social structures. And yet, often such things happen almost by themselves, without secret “elders” planning them.

The simplest example of this is Santa Claus. Santa Claus is a perfect example of such a “headless conspiracy”.

Parents lie to their children, the government is also on the conspiracy (Santa is tracked by NORAD), a lot of money is made, and yet the “Santa Conspiracy” happens by itself without being planned by a few secretive villains.

The Santa conspiracy is not a meaningless fun attribute of early childhood (my kids received presents from Santa and even were visited by Santa until they realize that Santa looked a lot like their dad.) It is an important socialization tool that teaches older children to play along and maintain the pretense in order to receive presents.

This is how children are socialized to be part of other, similar pretenses when they grow up. They have to pretend that Santa exists in order to receive Christmas presents.

I wrote a post about it on Dec 24 a year ago, that garnered over 400 responses.

Many of my readers, who are natural critical thinkers, reported unease they experienced as children being lied to by everyone about Santa. That realization that literally everyone could be making stuff up in a concerted manner, is a cornerstone foundation of realistic worldview, which is sometimes incorrectly described as “conspiracism”.

“People exposing it would be cast out of the social structures.”

The reality is that “exposing” faux conspiracies gets clicks and income on “social structures”.

“I wrote a post about it on Dec 24 a year ago, that garnered over 400 responses.”

Apparently there are more than a few paranoid ninnies joining Igor in a freakout over the Santa Conspiracy.

“400 responses”

400 (non-unique) responders vs. 8 billion people. There might still be hope for the human race.

Apparently there are more than a few paranoid ninnies joining Igor in a freakout over the Santa Conspiracy.

Or 400 plus people enjoy a good laugh.

I’ve always wondered what proportion ( although I realise that it must vary substantially) of the “millions of followers”, “thousands of subscribers” bragged about actually are sceptics, reading for laughs or doing a project for a university course on mis/ dis-information/ bad journalism.

Perhaps it’s useful to look at “number of views” for a particular article ( e.g. on NN) vs “number of subscribers”**. Another alt med guru boasted of having 6-7 million FB followers ( before he was tossed off of the platform) yet his “films” and “classrooms” get only hundreds or a thousand free views. Similarly, Substack contrasts free vs paid subscribers. I assume that true believers might do more than the minimal. I sign up for nothing.

I once checked numbers of anti-vaxxers’
fka Twitter/ X accounts***/ other accounts and found that 10-15K was very large ( although RFK jr , Del got much more which have grown of late)

** I know some sceptics sign up

*** while I’m here: name/ handle no longer works so if anyone has alternatives. Those alternatives using instances FAILED greatly.

Santa Claus is the original surveillance state.
“He knows if you’ve been bad or good . . . “

Well, if your readers accept everything you write, I wouldn’t consider them critical thinkers.

Many of them disagree with me frequently! The comments are unmoderated and disagreeing comments are not censored

“They have to pretend that Santa exists in order to receive Christmas presents.”

I told you this was shite that least time you spewed it over your keyboard. Have you managed to demonstrate this as a fact yet?

“Natural critical thinkers”. Ha ha ha ha. If you actually did any real investigating, maybe. Political slaves having a nice orgy of self gratification is just intellectual chaff.

Is “cast out of the social structures” how you spell “makes lots of money and is asked for advice by elected officials”? RFK Jr. made more money as an anti-vaccine crusader than he ever did working to clean up the Hudson River.

I wrote a post about it on Dec 24 a year ago, that garnered over 400 responses.

Seasonal — post about the evils of Santa on christmas eve. An interesting experiment would be doing the foolish rant about the “Santa social conditioning conspiracy” in the middle of the summer. But, since that probably wouldn’t get the marginal attention igor’s ego craves it hasn’t been done and most likely won’t be done.

You misunderstood the point that I made if you think that I talked about “the evils of Santa”. The Santa phenomenon is not evil, it is the norm and it is designed to form “normal behavior”.

Our entire society is built around conspiracies, self-perpetuating lies, unspoken assumptions etc. This is how human minds work. Religion, the “I beleeeve in science” types not even trying to understand science, various influence networks are built upon such foundations.

Santa helps condition kids to participate in the adult human society by NICELY making them pretend to believe in obviously absurd stuff. This makes it easier for them to get along with others in the future. It makes it easier for them to play along in social situations where all people spout absurdities, that are necessary to advance careers etc.

For the smarter, critically-minded children, the Santa phenomenon makes them attuned to the possibility that they may not be told the truth.

All of this is done in a nice, non-traumatizing manner, so children grow up socialized.

This is the whole point of Santa Claus. Just reducing this phenomenon to “evil” is trying to insult me instead of understanding, shows that you are also one of those unthinking people who attack the messenger espousing unsettling ideas.

Did you notice that I am not trying to insult you? This is not due to the lack of skill, I could literally make your blood boil with well-crafted remarks, but I choose NOT to do it to open up your mind!


blockquote> Our entire society is built around conspiracies, self-perpetuating lies, unspoken assumptions etc. This is how human minds work. Religion, the “I beleeeve in science” types not even trying to understand science, various influence networks are built upon such foundations.<.blockquote>

You described yourself very well. You’re simply too out of touch to recognize it.

Did you notice that I am not trying to insult you? This is not due to the lack of skill, I could literally make your blood boil with well-crafted remarks, but I choose NOT to do it to open up your mind!

Beware the powers of Conspiracy Monger, a loony voice spreading disinformation who puts at risk people who believe what he says about vaccines and science.

Then perhaps at around the age of 12-13 I could talk to them to make sure they notice the hidden undercurrents of the Santa story.

It takes a sick mind to look forward to telling children of any age a line of substance free bullshit about [false] hidden undercurrents of the Santa story.

You do realize the whole Santa schtick only applies to Christians and some agnostics, right?

Because my Jewish friends and I never got into the believe in Santa so he brings you presents.

“I could literally make your blood boil with well-crafted remarks, but I choose NOT to do it to open up your mind!”


Antivaxer Proximity Syndrome is more devastating than we had ever suspected.

Imagine the consequences when Igor unleashes his hitherto hidden powers to make a well-crafted remark.


“I wrote a post about it on Dec 24 a year ago, that garnered over 400 responses.”

Well, so much for “there’s a huge conspiracy to hide The Truth.”

Oh, and I have yet to hear of any children anywhere actually being threatened with loss of presents if they didn’t believe in Santa Claus. I certainly didn’t stop getting prezzies after I stopped believing, and neither did any other kid I knew. Seriously, Santa Claus really isn’t that important for anyone’s “socialization” or “social structures.”

You need to get out more.

If it is not important, why is everyone doing it?

I am an aspiring grandfather. If my hopes materialize and I have grandchildren, I would love to play along, pretend to be Santa in my Santa suit, or whatever.

Then perhaps at around the age of 12-13 I could talk to them to make sure they notice the hidden undercurrents of the Santa story.

There are no hidden undercurrents, except in the commercial sense and they’re not particularly hidden.

You picked a terrible example and it doesn’t have to be important for ‘everyone’ to do it. Except, in this case, everyone is NOT doing it.

Obviously, there is subconscious training for all children. Things that train those children for the society that they belong to. You do it. You’ve just admitted it, making sure they notice the ‘hidden undercurrents’ for example. You’re brainwashing them to your way of thinking. Just like you’ll do for their politics and their social attitudes.

Social programming is a mixed blessing. Parents hopefully teach their children (by example) respect for others, respect for ability and not to murder classmates for lunch money. They also pass on their prejudices.

Just wait until Toby Rogers finds out that everyone else, excepting himself and three of his closest friends or followers is in on it. His fourth friend is really an agent of the conspirators, as we at the Trilateral Commission discussed at our last secret meeting, not the more public one held in India back in 2023.

Toby Rogers has always been a conspiracy theorist. This is because reality and the evidence do not support his beliefs. Therefore, the whole world has to be conspiring against him personally, because there is no way he could be wrong. You can tell Roger’s problem is with reality because his conspiracy theories contradict each other.

Readers will be able to note that certain posters below the line here subscribe to some of the same conspiracy theories as Toby Rogers. When they recognise that, the best approach is simply dismiss everything these posters write as nonsense.

“… the whole world has to be conspiring against him personally, because there is no way he could be wrong.”

Try to imagine his state of mind.
A sceptic ( Jonathan Howard?) wrote that CT believers like him must have miserable existences!

A psychologist, Karen Douglas, wrote that CT beliefs serve various functions emotionally such as explaining how the world works, elevating self-regard, protection etc. Freud once wrote how anxiety guards against surprise threats – a person ‘prepares’ by living in a state of constant dread. Elements of both paranoia and narcissism! What a fun crowd!

Yet Substack writers and alt med visionaries cultivate that atmosphere through fear mongering articles, films and broadcasts and attract an UNcritical, disgruntled audience who express both grievance and distress. Of course, it’s possible that dystopian porn creators feel no fear and dread but merely target a specific audience who do.

I find it hard to believe that wealthy supplement salesmen/ tech bros who live on vast estates/ earning millions annually, are really worried about high prices of groceries or electricity. Or foreign self-replicating nanoparticles in their organic soup.

What’s with Australian universities giving undeserved PhDs to tin foil nutters like Rogers and Wilyman?

So much conspiratorial thinking doesn’t pass the test of common sense. If all celebrities and politicians except Trump an are part of an Illuminati/Satanic conspiracy, as QAnon believes, how did he have such major success in Hollywood without selling his soul? Similarly, why are so many antivaxxers making a living selling access to thgeir words if there’s such a powerful conspiracy lined up? (And of course, Rogers thinks vaccines cause gender dysphoria, because being an antivaxxer and transphobe go hand in hand, especially on Substack!) If we really were living in their world, Trump would’ve had a heart attack by summer 2016 and Big Pharma and the government would’ve shut Substack down.

I’m not anti-vaccination- but I am strongly anti covid vaccination. Because of something you didn’t mention- two related things, actually.

Prior to this miracle vaccine, there had been no successful vaccines developed against any coronavirus, for man or animals. And , in fact, several of the animal vaccines backfired and made the problem worse.
Prior to this miracle vaccine, there had been no successful deployment of mRNA for anything, despite multiple attempts to use it for something.

Then, suddenly- a miracle vaccine that from mRNA, previously useless, that could protect against a coronavirus, that had never before been doe! And all known with a whole 6 months of testing!

Um, no, just no. Turns out the miracle vaccine doesn’t work either. Which was widely predicted by the skeptics, including the conspiracy theorist skeptics. My wife and I are two of the <5& of the over 65 crowd that remain totally unvaxxed against the dreaded covid. And the data says we’re better off because of it.

Now, what you did write:

Blocking access to hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
Removing NAC from the shelves.
No early treatment.

These three things are both related and true. Explain why they are pro-science, and early treatment was anti-science. Should be easy, right?

Remdesivir and Paxlovid that are expensive, useless, and deadly.
Statistics seem to bear this out also.

Closing hiking trails, beaches, and parks thus preventing people from getting vitamin D.
Also true. Arresting surfers out on the ocean by themselves, filling skate parks with sand, removing basketball nets and covering hoops with boards, arresting boaters out on lakes fishing by themselves, forbidding the sale of home vegetable garden or other seeds in big box stores, banning the sales of tinted paint- only pre-mixed was allowed. Explain how any of these were pro-science and helped prevent spread. For people prone to believe conspiracy theories- those ridiculous actions fed right into them.

Then there’s Vitamin D. Pooh-poohed! It’s useless! The VA even ran a study proving it! A on time dose of 300,000 IU of Vitamin D to patients already in ICU. And, it didn’t make any difference! Well, yeah, of course it didn’t. That’s not how it works. There are multiple studies showing that people with blood levels of 30-50 ng/ml Vitamin D blood levels do better with every form of URIs, and worse outcomes with levels below 10 ng/ml. But hey, let’s use this study designed to show no effect to prove Vitamin D has no effect on the dreaded covid. My level is, BTW, a consistent 50 ng/ml, as measured over 5 tests in the last 4 years.

That’s quite the massive load of bullshit, Gospace.

There’s no point in wasting much time on someone whose brain is so fried they think that discouraging people from taking drugs useless for Covid was part of the Conspiracy. I was amused by this however:

“forbidding the sale of home vegetable garden or other seeds in big box stores”

Obviously, the gummint wanted to prevent us from raising our own food, causing mass starvation as part of the Depopulation Plan, right? The non-loon explanation is that restrictions on big box stores selling non-essential items were meant to discourage foot traffic and disease exposure when the pandemic first hit, as well as preventing those stores from having an unfair advantage over temporarily-closed businesses which depended on selling those items.

“I’m not anti-vaccination- but I am strongly anti covid vaccination.”

Uh-huh. So, which vaccines do you support and recommend others get for themselves and their children?

“Then there’s Vitamin D. Pooh-poohed! It’s useless! The VA even ran a study proving it! A on time dose of 300,000 IU of Vitamin D to patients already in ICU. And, it didn’t make any difference! Well, yeah, of course it didn’t. That’s not how it works”

Maybe you’d like to condemn the scam artists touting mega doses of vitamins as a cure?

A. There has actually been progress on making vaccines against coronavirus after SARS, but it was cut off when funding dried up when the outbreak ended.

B. The fact that there was no previous mRNA vaccine that made it to market does not mean these vaccines shouldn’t have. They were thoroughly tested, thoroughly reviewed, have large benefits and small risks. The fact that you – whose age puts at high risk of covid-19 – decided not to avail yourself of that protection is no more a matter of pride than not wearing seatbelts is. In both cases, the choice not to use a potentially life-saving precaution is a bad one, even if the person making the bad choice got lucky so far.

C. The evidence goes against any benefits for HCQ, IVM and NAC for COVID-19. Orac wrote at length about each, and you can use the search box to read about it. So yes, raising those as treatments is anti-science: it requires denying science.

The same arguments your leaders fed you about COVID-19 vaccines and treatments have been used by them for other vaccines. So if you buy that collection of claims, you will likely eventually become anti-vaccine.

You’re already following science deniers. I hope you come out of it.

Concerning “there’s never been a successful [fill in the blank] before, that’s what firsts are for.
There’s never been a successful mRNA vaccine for a coronavirus before, but Moderna and Pfizer developed one.
There had never been a successful polio vaccine until Salk’s vaccine.
And on and on.
These people must believe science is static.

Thank you for this. Unless Americans stop taking Covid vaccines, there won’t be room for the immigrants. Thanks to the deaths due to Covid, room has been made available for over a million replacements – and if “MakeSpace”‘s advice is followed, we’ll have room for a 1000 more every day.

All those things gospace said are true, but only when you ignore the overwhelming evidence and data to the contrary. They are only true when you give your soul to the spaghetti sky monster otherwise known as the collective group of shit for brains.

Do you understand that it is possible to do something first time ? If not,exactly nothing happens.
Why do you think COVID vaccines do not work work ? Repeaating claim oes not mke is truth
I did not notice going outside for sun was prohibited. Going for beach is not only way toi get suun
Ivermectin is banned Pierre Kory sells it all the time. Thiough it did not help him:

Why would anyone CARE? Why would anyone waste money, time, thought, or effort to acknowledge the existence of, let alone, kill…JLB or Igor?

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