Antivaccine nonsense Bad science Medicine

Dr. Pierre Kory: Sex, lies, and (COVID-19 vaccine) shedding

Dr. Pierre Kory, who is now undeniably antivaccine, has claimed on Substack that “shedding” from COVID-19 vaccines can transmit the dreaded vaccine evil humors through sex. As bonkers as this all is, it appears to be time to address this topic again.

There are times when I find a topic and know that it’s something I simply must write about. Indeed, when I saw today’s topic, I knew I had to write about it that I seriously considered signing up for a a month of a Substack, even though I absolutely loathe the idea of giving quacks even a penny of my money. Fortunately, for whatever reason, Dr. Pierre Kory decided to take the article out from behind the paywall on his Substack allowing me to see it in all its glory.

The first thing you need to know, before I discuss Kory’s nonsense, is that Kory has gone all-in on “shedding” by COVID-19 vaccines, which means that I’m going to have to revisit the concept and why it is so ridiculous. In fact, Kory has gone so all-in on promoting the myth that COVID-19 vaccines cause their recipients to “shed” spike protein (and apparently other horrible “toxins” and evil humors, that he’s written a whole series on it that as of three days ago was up to part nine (and counting). The part that I’m interested in, as any of you who’ve perused Dr. Kory’s Substack might have guessed, is “Shedding” Part 7- Descriptions of Shedding Causing Illness After Sexual Intercourse, in which he claims to “provide case descriptions of two different couples where the women fell ill with identical symptoms after a specific type of sexual activity.” That’s right. Dr. Kory has bought into the antivax claim that if you’re unvaccinated you shouldn’t have sex with the vaccinated, because it will contaminate you somehow via—guess what?—”shedding.”

Sex lies Kory
Imagine that the plant is the dreaded spike protein and horrific vaccine ingredients emerging from Peter Gallagher’s…well, you get the idea. Now do you think that Laura San Giacomo should have sex with him?

In case anyone thinks I’m being unfair by characterizing Dr. Kory as antivaccine, let me just quote his own words from last December:


This last statement is basically the definition of being “antivaccine,” which is why I cite these Tweets every time I discuss Dr. Kory. Also, who posts stuff like this on social media on Christmas Eve? Shouldn’t he have been celebrating with his family?

You get the idea. His statements are basically as clear a declaration of being antivaccine as I have ever seen dating back to long before the pandemic.

So let’s see what Dr. Kory is saying about Sex and the Vaccine:

In this post, I include two brief descriptions of illness developing after a certain type of sexual activity as well as a unique case of a highly sensitive person who was forced to separate from her husband due to an inability to share a bed after he got secretly vaccinated. 

I have put this post behind a paywall due to its sensitive (and somewhat sensational) nature, however in Parts 8 and 9, I will include dozens of descriptions of shedding events subsequently submitted to me by subscribers either via personal email or as a comment under prior posts in this series.

See what I meant about the paywall? For whatever reason, though, during the time between posting this a week ago and now, Dr. Kory took this out from behind the paywall. Maybe his paywalled posts automatically go to free after a week? Who knows? I’m too lazy to look. No, that’s not quite right. I just don’t care enough about the answer to the question to look for it.

Instead, let’s see these “case reports,” starting with the first:

A friend and colleague who is “vaccine literate” (and knowledgeable about vaccine injury treatment as they themselves were injured) reported to me the following:
“I was at an airport and was on a long, crowded line through security. By the time I got on the plane, I felt unwell with fatigue, general malaise and a headache. This has happened before when I have been exposed to crowds. When I got home that night, to make me feel better and relax, my wife offered me oral sex. She and I like when she swallows the sperm, and after we had sex, within minutes she suddenly complained of 9 out of 10 pain and was curled up in the fetal position. No nausea or vomiting. This had never happened before in the many years of our marriage. We both quickly concluded that not only was I again sick from close exposure to a crowd of people at the airport, but she had been subsequently “spiked” as well. Ingestion of 24mg of ivermectin reduced the pain to 1 out of 10 in 30 minutes.”
I need to point out that in addition to being a case of sexual transmission, it is also a case of “secondary shedding,” meaning that the husband first developed symptoms after exposure to a group of vaccinated people and then subsequently transmitted the spike or other mRNA vaccine nanoparticle components to his wife at home who then became acutely ill.

That’s right! The vaccine is so super powerful that, not only did the husband apparently pick it up and become from an airport full of vaccinated people, but he gave it to his wife through oral sex the very same night! Those are some seriously evil humors coming from the vaccine, almost unbelievably so. I mean, even if the husband had caught COVID-19 itself it wouldn’t have made him sick that fast or been able to be transmitted to his wife mere hours later, much less by sex.

Also note how this clearly antivax couple just assumed that the husband’s feeling unwell was due to shedding from vaccinated people rather than, for instance, a claustrophobic reaction to crowds (something that I definitely sympathize with), crappy air in a crowded place (which has caused me to feel unwell, with malaise, fatigue, and a headache), or just being tired from travel. I’ve lost track of the number of times (pre pandemic, anyway) that travel has wiped me out. As for the wife’s abdominal pain after the oral sex? Why did they assume that that had to be “shedding” of spike protein from the vaccine? Because they’re antivax, of course. And how convenient that ivermectin fixed her abdominal pain right up! Never mind that she could just have had stomach cramps that either cleared up on their own, as stomach cramps often do, or responded to placebo effects because she believed that she had been “spiked” and that ivermectin would help her.

In other words, this case is incredibly unconvincing. Let’s see if Case 2 is any better. This case comes from an intake form from his quack clinic Leading Edge and is very similar to the “case report” above:

Husband was vaccinated April 1, 2021 with J&J. I am not vaccinated. I’ve felt fine around him and sex (no shedding issues) with the exception of ingested semen 6 weeks ago. The next morning I had abdominal pain and diarrhea. It has not gotten better. My stomach feels unstable. My stomach feels unstable. I talked to my doctor about my concerns with spike protein and sex but she basically said it was nothing to worry about it and didn’t believe J&J produced a spike protein. I decided not to bother her with my symptom at that point.

If I were more cynical, I’d look at the date of vaccination and wonder if this was some sort of April Fools joke being played on Dr. Kory. I also can’t help but note that it’s disappointing that a physician apparently didn’t know how the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which is an adenovirus vaccine, works. (Basically, the vaccine induces the cells of the muscle into which it’s injected to make spike protein using DNA from the viral vector rather than mRNA, as the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines do.)

Again, however, I am struck at how certain these people are that it must be “shedding” from the vaccine that made them sick, and it must be from the man’s semen, the implication being that you shouldn’t have sex with someone who has been vaccinated against COVID-19.

Dr. Kory should know better, but apparently doesn’t. (Either that, or he’s lying in service of his grift). This leads to him saying:

I find the near identical reports of acute illness developing after swallowing semen of a vaccinated man to be compelling evidence that spike protein or other mRNA vaccine components are present to a clinically impactful degree in sperm. Recall that shedding via sperm was not studied (as it should have been) in either animals or humans. Also know that both couples no longer engage in this type of intercourse.

A PubMed search for whether any component of the vaccine can be found in semen reveals lots of studies of whether COVID-19 or COVID-19 vaccination affects sperm parameters or men’s semen. On the other hand, as I’ve discussed before when I talked about how incredibly implausible from a scientific viewpoint the concept of vaccine shedding even is for COVID-19 vaccines.

Dr. Kory isn’t done, though. After dredging up two stories of women supposedly getting sick from spike protein after oral sex with their partners (only one of whom was even vaccinated), he dredges up a story that he had apparently used before, citing an email to him from an Australian woman relating this tale of woe. First, though, she provides an introduction:

I am a 43 year old caucasian woman from Australia. For a large part of my adult life I have suffered from migraines, reactions to certain foods and chemicals, and infertility after my 2 children. I was never able to have a third child. I am otherwise healthy and slim with no chronic conditions whatsoever and eat very healthy. I have an auto immune issue; it’s not clear when it started but, receiving the Gardasil shot in 2012 certainly made everything worse. I also have the MTHFR mutation (both of them, heterozygous).

So she’s already antivax and believes that vaccines, specifically the HPV vaccine, caused her to develop an unspecified autoimmune disease. Of course, she has an MTHFR mutation, because before the pandemic that used to be one of the antivax quack’s favorite “explanations” for reactions to vaccines. She goes on:

Anyway, when the Covid Vax campaign started in Australia in 2021, I felt the ‘shedding’ right away. I was so ill after first coming into contact with a vaccinated individual that I was pretty much bed ridden for days and was not able to shake the accompanying brain fog. After much research (with the help of an amazing naturopath), I realised that I needed ivermectin to help me. At the time, in June 2021, it was still legal to obtain and I managed to get a kind doctor to prescribe it for me via telehealth. In 3 days I was back to my normal self. In July 2021 ivermectin was banned here and all of us concerned had to order it from India and hope that customs wouldn’t intercept it. Like minded groups formed and we all helped each other; kind compounding pharmacists would prepare it for some at their own risk. What a crazy time that was. 

Then my husband at the time got the shots without telling me. I started to get violent headaches every time he jumped into bed at night. Weeks later I started bleeding profusely. The bleeding never stopped (3 weeks of heavy bleeding – please note I have never in my entire life had period problems) until I had to be rushed to the emergency where they tried to force me to have a blood transfusion as my haemoglobin levels were so low they didn’t think I was going to last the night. I refused as they couldn’t guarantee that it was unvaccinated blood. I asked for an iron infusion, knowing it would build my haemoglobin levels back slowly, a longer but safer solution. I took drugs to stop the bleeding. I separated from my husband due to this issue as I could never be near him again without getting sick. 

All I can say at this moment is just how horrible it must be to be this couple. First, the husband did the right thing and got vaccinated, but his wife is so convinced that “shedding” is real that she now can’t be near him because she becomes physically ill. How did she get this idea? After all, before her husband was vaccinated, this woman noted that she had “felt the shedding right away” and gotten very ill after encountering her first vaccinated person, so much so that she was bedridden for days. This brings me to another question: How did she know her husband had been vaccinated if he never told her? Or maybe he told her after the fact. Whatever the case, once she got the idea in her head that her vaccinated husband was “shedding” the evil toxic spike protein that she feared from the vaccine—but, oddly enough, not from the virus, which produces orders of magnitude more spike protein in infected individuals—the fate of their marriage was sealed, as she likely had a strong nocebo reaction to his very presence. Poor guy. Or maybe poor guy who got lucky because she dumped him because of his supposedly vaccine-contaminated semen. I just hope there were no children involved.

In her story, she states that two months after this she experienced decidual cast shedding, which happens when the uterus, instead of shedding its lining during menstruation in pieces (the normal situation) is shed in one large piece in a shape of the inside of the uterus. It’s rare and can be painful, but appears not to be harmful. It’s known to be more common in ectopic pregnancy and as a result of progesterone contraceptives. Besides there being no evidence that spike protein can cause decidual cast shedding, the timing doesn’t even jibe. But this woman is absolutely sure that spike protein shed from her vaccinated husband caused her illnesses and her decidual cast shedding.

To be honest, I don’t know which one of these people I feel more sorry for, the wife or the husband. The husband married a woman who is so antivaccine and suggestible that if she thinks you’re vaccinated she will become ill in your presence and is so afraid of vaccines that she sees spike protein everywhere. Indeed, just get a load of the last part of her account:

I want to tell you that I am so sensitive to the shedding still that I can tell if someone is vaccinated within 10 secs of me standing next to them. 2 and a half years later I can testify 100% that people are still shedding as much as they did when they first got jabbed. It does NOT stop.

I’d love to put this to the test. Can this woman pass a double-blind test in which she is placed in the presence of either vaccinated or unvaccinated people and then asked to say which is which? The test would have to be rigorous and double-blinded, and there would have to be procedures and controls in place to make sure that she isn’t somehow tipped off regarding who is vaccinated and who is not. Dr. Kory, you need to do this experiment, particularly given the woman’s other claims:

Throughout these past 2 years here is what I have learned and I can sign a legal sworn affidavit on this:

-old people shed less (because their immune system is weaker?)

-healthy, energetic people shed more

-Covid vaccinated kids (we have a lot in Australia) are the biggest shedders (probably because of their strong immune system) – I do not walk in to my kids classrooms

-I feel secondary shedding from my kids when they get home from school

-Shedding seems to affect people with auto immune issues (you weren’t sure in your interview why some people were sensitive and not others).

-Nattokinase has been my saviour, it is so effective that sometimes I can’t even feel the shedding.

-I take ivm once a week as it has a long body shelf life and it’s also amazing. I have HCQ too, but I haven’t found the same efficacy.

-LDN (low dose naltrexone) has been significant in reducing auto immune reactions and please consider it for your patients as people who are sensitive to shedding also have auto immune problems

-NAC is fine but hasn’t really worked

-nicotine works against shedding/spike proteins, I do not smoke but crave cigarettes when I am shed on. (the only 2 people I know who have never had covid are heavy smokers).

-shedding comes from people’s breath, skin and all body fluids. It’s everywhere in their body and I do not know how these people can stay alive.

-I am ok to talk to vaccinated people if we are outdoors. Mostly.

-people do not stop shedding, ever.

-I swear I can tell if someone is vaccinated within 10 seconds, indoors. 

Seriously, Dr. Kory. I thought you were a scientist. Don’t you want to find out if this woman can really do what she claims? This is potentially Nobel Prize-level research, and, if successful, would vindicate you scientifically! So why wouldn’t you do it? Never mind the inconsistency in her story, in which children “shed” more than old people because they have a stronger immune system. Wouldn’t it be the opposite?

Also, seriously. I hope this woman gets some help of the non-naturopathic variety. She clearly needs it. I also hope that her husband has moved on and managed to find someone else.

But back to “shedding.” Remember the whole “pureblood” thing, the idea that those who are unvaccinated are “pureblood”? It was a big thing in 2022, faded, but hasn’t gone away. It is, of course, a fascist idea, very similar to the idea in Nazi Germany that “pure” Aryans were the epitome of humankind. However, this whole narrative is also yet more evidence that the antivaccine movement is a purity cult, with vaccines serving the role of “contamination” of their “purity of essence.” There’s a reason why my go-to YouTube clip is a clip of Gen. Jack Ripper from Dr. Stangelove or: How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb in which he talks about fluoridation being a Communist plot to “sap and impurity” our “precious bodily fluids” or “purity of essence.” In this viewpoint, once youre contaminated, not only are you impure but you can contaminate others and make them impure as well.

Another clip from Dr. Strangelove comes to mind here:

Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I… I do deny them my essence.” This is a lot like antivax. It’s also vitalistic thinking.

Basically, not only is antivax a purity cult, but to antivaxxers are so evil, their malign influence so potent, that it can spread from the vaccinated to the unvaccinated, in particular through sex. Unfortunately, Dr. Kory is deeply embedded in the cult to the point where he just takes such stories at face value. Either that, or he sees their value to his grift. It could even be both. They are not mutually exclusive.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

75 replies on “Dr. Pierre Kory: Sex, lies, and (COVID-19 vaccine) shedding”

This research obviously proves that Dr. Stella Emanuel is a world class scientist for documenting that sex with demons in one’s sleep causes gynecological problems …

… either that, or it’s a rich field for new frontiers in psychiatry.

…what are these women doing that I’m not? Twice I’ve woken up, unable to move with a gaunt, shadowy figure looming at the foot of my bed and both times they refused to put out.

Though, to be fair, I am vaccinated.

Do these supernatural horrors know something that the rest of us don’t?

Or is having a repellent effect on monsters a previously unknown benefit of vaccination?

…wait, that actually tracks with the logic used by those who don’t believe vaccines to be effective at preventing illness, doesn’t it? If intercourse with demons causes gynecological problems and vaccines are not effective at preventing disease then the benefits of the HPV could be attributed to it having a repellent effect on sex demons.

For some reasons, reading theses stories made me think of urban legends like the couple who go have a tryst in the wood and get hit by lightning and eaten by a bear.
I also have strong vibes of men bragging about how serviceable their girlfriend is.
IOW, made-up horror stories.

I am wondering if the problem these women have is intestinal parasites, given how effective ivermectin has been at easing their symptoms.

“This last statement is basically the definition of being “antivaccine,” which is why I cite these Tweets every time I discuss Dr. Kory. Also, who posts stuff like this on social media on Christmas Eve? Shouldn’t he have been celebrating with his family?”

Well, not necessarily. Doctor, some of us (such as, for a random example, me) are not Christians, and do not come from a Christian family. 25 December is not a significant day for me or my loved ones.

The vaccinated don’t make spike forever, or even for very long. I was vaccinated again back in October–by now I should have vanishingly small or zero amounts of spike in my body, correct? One of the many antifactual components of the shedding thing is the idea that after vaccination, we make that foreign protein forever. (Why would immunity fade if the antigen is still present?) And the obvious question of why I don’t get sick, but this poor woman could be bedridden after walking past me, is never really addressed.

I suppose mr. Kory and the people like him should find some uninhabited island and avoid all contact with vaccinated people.

B.t.w. Even the thought of oral sex would make me feel sick, especially if I would have to do it without a condome.

Anti-vaxxer, someone who believes everything bad he or she feels is somehow connected to the vaccine.
Last Saterday I got my flu and pneumococci vaccines. On Sunday I didn’t feel great and on Monday I decided to skip my evening meal and eat some soup instead, that didn’t go to well. An anti-vaxxer would immidiatly think it had something to do with vaccines. It might be, but it might just as well just be accidental. The autumn weather which is dark and rainy mostly doesn’t work great on how I feel. And well my stomach is feeling better again, so…

If I recall correctly, vaccinated sperm was never tested for how many LNPs were in it. (I decided to double-check and looked at google scholar and searched for “mrna lnp sperm”)

So any discussion of “Covid vaccine sperm shedding” is by necessity speculative.

We do know, from the Japan biodistribution study for example, that mRNA nanoparticles love going into testicles, so they probably make it into sperm.

We also know that vaccinated parents shed their vaccines on unvaccinated children, but that does not involve sperm. Evidence for Aerosol Transfer of SARS-CoV2-specific Humoral Immunity.

My female subscribers reported several “shedding” incidents, which unfortunately do not amount to proof of anything.

In any case, some weeks after vaccination, shedding should logically cease, so it is a temporary problem. Wives of vaccinated husbands can just avoid sex for a few weeks and explain it by “cramps”, “headaches”, “depression”, “extended period”, sadness, an unrelated scandal or two, just to not upset the husbands too much with the vaccination issue.

Covid pandemic was extremely divisive for families, so no need to pedal vaccine ideology in marital relations if spouses disagree

“We also know that vaccinated parents shed their vaccines on unvaccinated children, but that does not involve sperm. Evidence for Aerosol Transfer of SARS-CoV2-specific Humoral Immunity.

That article is about “shedding” antibodies like IgA in saliva and other nasal fluids, you ass.
No vaccine spike protein involved.

I am also highly skeptical the quantities involved could have any effect on the people breathed upon. And since it would happen with any secreted antibody, not just anti-sars-cov2 antibody, we would be seing any ill effect with any immunization, either vaccinal or natural.

Speaking of baseless speculation, I love this part of their conclusion:
“A recent publication showed substantial benefits of parental vaccination in reducing the risk of infection in the unvaccinated children in the same home 6. It is tempting to speculate that aerosol-mediated antibody transfer may have possibly contributed to their findings reported.”
This observed effect could in no way be due to the vaccinated parents being protected and not “shedding” enough live viruses to infect others, isn’t it?

OTOH, that article is a nice argument that the injected vaccine is resulting in secreted antibodies in the nasal cavity, and hence is effective against a respiratory virus.

Tl;Dr: as usual, a science denier cites an article which turns out not supporting their argument, but does support their opponents argument.

I find it very unlikely that “spitting” antibodies would produce the described result.

They described children obtaining “immunity” after parents were vaccinated. This perfectly fits the definition of “shedding”.

” They described children obtaining “immunity” ”

Nope. They certainly did not.

It’s right in the paragraph I quoted in my comment. To requote: “A recent publication showed substantial benefits of parental vaccination in reducing the risk of infection in the unvaccinated children in the same home 6”.

Not immunity, but lesser risk of infection.

You really should work on your reading comprehension.
Feel free to quote any passage I could have missed which is actually supporting your argument.

Its is not spike protein shedding. Its maternal antibodies in th not ,e milk. This is well case of passive immunity.

Japanese biodistribution study used very high concentration, 100 times greater than in vaccines.
From your link
we identified anti-SARS-CoV-2 specific antibodies eluted from surgical face masks worn by vaccinated lab members donated at the end
of one workday.
It is well known that saliva has antibodies. Spike antibody is very diffrent thing than spike protein. i guess business schoool does not teach that.

Yup. They injected orders of magnitude more vaccine, and, unlike the case in real life use of vaccines, they injected it intravenously. It’s an artificial experiment designed to identify every possible organ to which the vaccine components might go, not to mimic real world use of the vaccine.

If you dont understand basic biology, virtually anything would seem possible and in need of empirical testing.

Dude that rat study was 1000’s time the dose a human gets. Maybe use some of that math skills you claim to have.

Kory talked about (on Paul Thomas’ anti-vax show) being a “C”grade math major who went to medical school b/c he didn’t know what else to do. He could only get into a Caribbean medical school but unfortunately somehow must’ve passed his USMLE steps and wound up back in the US.

What a wast of an MD degree. All these case reports read like some projection fantasy from the shriveled sulci of his addled brain.

Don’t these guys usually make a big deal about how ingestion isn’t the same as injection? Yet here we are, talking about infection by ingestion as a ‘special’ risk.

Sounds like electrosensitivity bollocks all over again.

There is an alternate explanation:
it’s not vaccines shedding making these women ill it’s that they are looking for an excuse to avoid having oral sex or being with their husbands at all.

Vaccine shedding is accepted by thought leaders at NN and as well as Naomi Wolf who describes multiple tales of unvaccinated women exposed to vaccinated women developing menstrual problems.
It’s rather far-fetched but remember that many of these people believe in homeopathy and action-at-a-distance/ remote viewing.

Glad to see Pierre Kory is twice as scientific as Steve Kirsch. Steve has proclaimed that a single anecdote is enough to convince him of a (pseudo)scientific proposition. But Pierre needs to have two anecdotes.

I haven’t been wearing my vaccinated status t-shirt much lately, but probably need to get it out of the drawer to help keep these shedding-obsessed loonies at a distance. I could get this other t-shirt but it might be pushing the envelope a bit.

So, another pro disease person who prefers sickness and death (and crippling of children) to vaccines. I always picture them wearing black hoods and carrying scythes.

Believe it or not, ‘sickle'(s) translated into Sicilian dialect is Fauci. Obviously, anti-vaxxers and alties make much of that in posts ( see fauci meaning). Other ( Italian) translations could be jawbone, throat or maw ( of an animal).

It wouldn’t be surprising if Kory is the next antivaxer to claim that he isn’t anti-vaccine because his kids were immunized.*

*like RFK Jr.

What I find interesting to see is the (d)evolution from people like Kory from initially being merely wrong() but still in possession of all his marbles, to his current state of being all-out batsht insane, promulgating these utterly crazy shedding stories. The striking thing is that he is not alone, with other formerly quite accomplished doctors now claiming mindbogglingly outlandish things such as COVID vaccines killing hundreds of thousands of people, based on just one Very Bad Internet survey with a couple of thousand heavily biased respondents. I mean, these people are almost literally rolling over each other to come up with ever crazier as well as more stupid ideas how vaccines are supposed to be bad(**).

I’d almost believe that there is a new kind of epidemic going on, causing waning cognitive faculties in antivaxxers.

*: IIRC about the use of hydroxychloroquine – and he could just as well have been right in the beginning, before we had better data.
**: Maybe we should draw up a list of all the ways they came up with so far? We might even make a song about it to the tune of “50 Ways to Love your Liver Leave your Lover”. (“50 ways to shed your spikeys”? )

Audience capture. Their audience requires them to spout increasingly nuttier comments, otherwise they won’t pay for the substack posts. See also igor Chudov.

Yeah, you’re probably right. I just find it rather depressing how many people keep swallowing (and supporting, repeating and amplifying) this increasingly extreme disinformation.

Then again, it is of course logical: messages such as “vaccine X causes people to drop dead” are simply far more interesting and emotionally appealing than boring information along the lines of “vaccine X is safe and effective”. So FUD, lies and misinformation get a disproportionate amount of attention – even from people who know right away that it can’t be true, if only because they are the ones to debunk it.

I wonder if this disinformation is also a way to make people distrust science in general, not only in vaccines, but also in environmental science. Currently reading a Dutch book by Jan Paul van Soest, which is probably a bit like ‘Merchants of doubt’.

Yep. Audience capture likely explains it. Some are captured by their audience faster than others, too. Basically, someone like Kory starts saying somewhat “out there” stuff and is rewarded for it with praise about how “brave” and “outside the herd” he is, plus more readers; so unconsciously (or consciously) he starts saying more of the same, resulting in him being pulled gradually—or in Kory’s case, not so gradually—deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole of antivax conspiracy and pseudoscience. The end result is posts like this one, which are utterly bonkers even by antivax standards.

@ Chris P
and Richard Raskin:

You are correct.
What’s even worse is that some alties/ anti-vaxxers branch out into other areas of ( faux) expertise after they mislead people about vaccines, meds and other health issues SO…
we get mind numbingly awful, endless lectures on the economy, politics, social concerns and education whilst they advise their entranced thralls about how to LIVE: eat, cook, farm, exercise, maintain relationships, raise/ educate children, manage money, invest, plan for the future ( apocalypse), start home businesses and how to avoid
tyranny, universities, corporations and governmental control. There also are forays into mental health, religion and gun ownership as well as women’s issues. Let’s go back to the 1950s!

I first noticed their increased attention to economics during the 2008-9 financial crises but they never really stopped. I imagine that their customers cut back on over priced supplements/ super foods so they had to get followers energised so they would reward them by buying stuff.
Most of these websites have charities to fund their “important work”.
Their politics lean right and libertarian.

What’s even worse is that some alties/ anti-vaxxers branch out into other areas of ( faux) expertise after they mislead people about vaccines, meds and other health issues …

Yes, that makes sense. They can’t keep ramping up the crazy indefinitely, and after a while (I’d say 1-2 years), a point is reached where their audience starts losing interest at a faster pace than they can keep up with by making up ever more insane stuff on the same familiar theme. So they cross over into new territory, rekindling their audience’s interest for a while – but probably not as long and as intensely as with their original topic of interest. And so you get a sort of oil spill effect, with someone spreading ever more lower-quality nonsense on an ever growing number of topics.

Unfortunately, social media channels have become very good at binding audience through various mechanisms, even with the most awful content, so this problem won’t go away anytime soon.

In July 2021 ivermectin was banned here [Australia]

No, it wasn’t. Ivermectin was never banned in Australia.

General practitioners were prevented from prescribing ivermectin off-label. Specialists, including infectious disease specialists, continued to be allowed to prescribe ivermectin for whatever conditions they thought appropriate. And it happened on 10 September 2021, not in July 2021. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good story.

Part of the reason for the restriction was that “there has been a 3-4-fold increased dispensing of ivermectin prescriptions in recent months, leading to national and local shortages for those who need the medicine for scabies and parasite infections. It is believed that this is due to recent prescribing and dispensing for unapproved uses, such as COVID-19. Such shortages can disproportionately impact vulnerable people, including those in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities”.

The restriction was lifted on 1 June 2023.

“Shortage of ivermectin in Australia” is a total lie. Ivermectin is cheap and costs $1-2 per pill retain from online suppliers in India, which is where I bought it.

What was worse that restricting prescriptions, was that Australian customs worked very hard to intercept overseas Ivermectin shipments (the US was much more lienient, per my experience)

They restricted Ivermectin for one reason – to increase the fear and raise “vaccine uptake”.

I have hopes that those people will be held to account, one day. Releasing deadly viruses, and poisoning millions, should come with consequences.

And Mr. Chudov wonders why I do not take him seriously when it comes to COVID-19, given that he believes that scientists “released deadly viruses”—but, wait, I thought COVID-19 was “just a cold” or at least “no worse than the flu”—and “poisoned” millions. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Igor’s conspiracies are like the blob from the movie of the same name: it can expand to envelop and consume anything in its way.

In the movie people were consumed: in Igor’s conspiracies facts are consumed.

I am not one of the people who believe that “Covid is just a cold”.

I know many such people, but I am not one of them.

Covid is a huge biomedical crime.

I know numerous people hurt by Covid.

What was the point of this ‘crime’?

I want you to tell me what there was to gain that was so amazing that close to every person even tangentially involved in the medical field was willing to risk their lives and the lives of everyone they knew for the sake of it.

What was so hugely beneficial that doctors were willing to watch their colleagues, friends and loved ones die for the sake of the scheme? Hell, why did some give their own lives for it?

Tell me what the end game of the plan is and why so many are willing to sacrifice so much for it.

Who did the crime ? It is still Gates ?
Speaking about biocrimes, do you know qui tam lawsuit ?
20% of compensation paid is available to whistleblowers.
Notice criminal case against Pfizer mentioned, Whisleblower would be billionaire
By your reasoning because was mild flu to you, it must be mild cold to to everybody. Why this do not apply this time, expect when you speak about ivermectin

Igor also forgets……

Never mind.

Igor lives in his own world where his own conclusions define reality and are never wrong. His Truman Show bubble just floats along in the slipstream of real world science.

And why were these deadly viruses released?

If there was no effective vaccine and what was released was, according to you, poison, then these evil masterminds were in as much danger as everyone else – perhaps even greater danger as they refused to use all of the remedies that you claim are effective.

Why would an evil genius let something out that’s more likely to kill him than it is to kill the people he wants it to kill?

I know I sound like a broken record, but the story you are trying to tell makes no sense.

I get it that you need the money because commissioning pictures of busty blond women buying Wonder Bread at Costco isn’t cheap, but there has to be a better way to make that money.

Your reasons why they should not have done what they did are valid – but they did it anyway.

Things do not have to make sense to happen.

They just happen – and then we try to make sense of them.

Think about an imaginary table with DESTROY THE WORLD button. Would you or I press it? I bet you and I would not – but some people would.

Does Igor know that contaminated cough syrup shipped from India killed 89 children in Gambia and Uzbekistan last year? And that India’s pharma industry is rife with problems? From CIDRAP:

“The country is also home to unregulated, cash-only drug companies that ship medications, including some of dubious quality, within India and abroad… “The regulatory process is weak and many people in the authorities are corrupt,” said the managing director of one such firm.”

Yet Igor is happy to ingest such a drug, which even if it isn’t contaminated or badly made, is ineffective for its intended purpose.

He’s living in a fool’s paradise, while trying to make money off other credulous fools.

Sure, Igor.

And yes, Australian customs regulates the importation of prescription medicine. Like most civilised countries. I’m not aware that ivermectin was particularly targeted by Australian customs. Do you have some actual evidence that it was?

The Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration also warned against self-importing and self-administering ivermectin, for what sound to me like very good reasons.

But anyway, there are mechanisms by which Australians can legally import medicines, if they go through the appropriate procedures, but one requirement is that if the medicine requires a prescription for it to be dispensed in Australia, you need a prescription in order to legally import it:

Yeah. The Aussies seized some of that IVM and found that the pills had no consistent amount, some had almost none. Others had adulterants and who knows what else.

Probably tadalafil in your case given your penchant for cruising Costco

Igor boasts that he can buy something sold as ivermectin from India for $1-2 per pill. Almost all tablet-form prescription medicines in Australia cost the end user no more than about AUD1 per tablet (about USD0.65). Some more commonly-prescribed medicines are now half that.

I love how ivermectin fixed it in 30 mins. Stuff works faster than haldol! It’s truly a miracle I’m going to start giving it to everyone with chronic Lyme. It probably cures Morgellons, too.

My strong suspicion is this clown had sex in the airport bathroom and brought a surprise home to wifey. She should go get an RPR.

I’m glad Kory is up to this; he is truly showing the world his warty ass. He’s everything I said he was-a pathetic, lying nutcase.

Regarding the Caribbean school…I had a crusty, old department chair once say about schools: You can’t really tell who is a DO or MD; you can usually tell who was at the top of their class. You can ALWAYS tell who went to a foreign school. Apologies to anyone upset by that statement.

not 30 minutes, but…

For me (my second Covid last June) and for my wife (first and only Covid Dec 2021), Ivermectin worked in about 3 hours.

Meaning, 3 hours after taking the first tode, temp dropped to normal.

My second Covid was like half a cold. I wish I knew about IVM the first time I had Covid in 2020

As notable as a bunny fart. I’ve seen people spike high 103+ fevers and then come back to normal in a few hours with no medication. Your anecdopes (yes dopes) are meaningless

I know my anecdotes lack the power of your anecdotes, but when I spiked a miserably high fever back when I was in college I got into a fight with my mom about how high it was and how miserable I felt. She told me that if my temperature would go down in time for me to go to bed and that I should stop complaining.

And something shocking happened – my temperature started to drop after a few hours and by the time I was ready to stop moping around downstairs and drag my miserable self up to bed my temperature was almost normal.

And I didn’t even take anything for it!

Anecdotes are wild, aren’t they?

A. For the first story, if we are going to imagine things, maybe the husband would have done better to imagine a parasite passing from the crowd and then to the wife. In that case, there may even be more basis to ivermectin working. Mogellons disease, anyone?

B. I also hope the woman in the last story gets the help she clearly needed. And frankly, I’m worried about leaving kids with someone like that.

C. Do you think Dr. Kory is really this incredulous, or cynically using these stories to grift?

I must confess I immediately thought of a more, shall we say, X Rated Double Blinded trial.
But I am an old sailor.


“And yes, Australian customs regulates the importation of prescription medicine. Like most civilised countries. I’m not aware that ivermectin was particularly targeted by Australian customs. Do you have some actual evidence that it was?”

I think Igor might be right, prl.
Here in The Netherlands it was the same situation. The customs here admitted they were extra keen at intercepting Ivm. This not only for human use, for animal use as well.
I helped someone import half a kilo of uncontaminated (which means for human use) Ivm into the country. After several attempts he appeared not able to arrange this himself, and since I don’t like governments playing dirty games, I told him how to manage this.
None of my business what he did with it.

“But anyway, there are mechanisms by which Australians can legally import medicines, if they go through the appropriate procedures, but one requirement is that if the medicine requires a prescription for it to be dispensed in Australia, you need a prescription in order to legally import it:

Iow, it was not possible to import the drug?

I looked up visit prices at Kory’s clinic and they are very steep.
Well, not really, cranks almost always charge more than the cost of real heath care.

Want to respond to Orac? Here's your chance. Leave a reply! Just make sure that you've read the Comment Policy (link located in the main menu in the upper right hand corner of the page) first if you're new here!

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.


Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading