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Dr. Robert Malone goes full antivaccine conspiracist

Dr. Robert Malone, “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” while still straining to maintain a pretense of being provaccine, went full antivaccine this week and is drifting farther and farther from reality and deeper and deeper into conspiracy theories.

Although I’ve mentioned Dr. Robert Malone, self-proclaimed “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” a few times on this blog, I realized this week to my surprise that I had only written one post featuring him as the primary topic. That was in July, and at the time Dr. Malone was whining that Wikipedia was “erasing him” because edits had been made to the Wikipedia entry about mRNA vaccines so that it no longer featured him as a prominent figure in the history of this new technology. In reality, as I described, part of what had happened is that his wife Dr. Jill Glasspool Malone, using the ‘nym Glasspool1, had been editing the entry on mRNA vaccines to feature her husband as the “inventor of mRNA vaccines.” Basically, Wikipedia’s editors appropriately and quickly shut that nonsense down right away, as well they should have. More recently, Dr. Malone has been assisting the antivaccine movement targeting Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn with disinformation, as well as promoting the conspiracy theory that Pfizer’s recently FDA-approved mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine Comirnaty is not the same as the vaccine that it had been distributing under an emergency use authorization before. (It is.)

The reason this issue came up derives from—surprise, surprise!—a Tweet I did almost a week ago. In it, I quote-Tweeted a podcaster and rapper named Zuby, sarcastically debunking COVID-19 conspiracy nonsense about the vaccines. As a result, I started getting a lot of responses like this:

Whenever someone “challenges” me like this, I almost always respond, “Be careful what you wish for.” So I’ll answer right now: Yes, Dr. Malone is wrong, and, although he clearly has an MD and did do some interesting work getting mRNA into cells to express proteins decades ago, I do question his qualifications these days. Even if he’s “qualified,” qualifications alone are not enough, particularly if you use them in the service of spreading disinformation, which Malone undoubtedly is.

Apparently Dr. Malone had been busy, and I hadn’t noticed. I soon found out that a “statement” of his had gone viral:

And here is Dr. Malone reading his prepared text, which has been circulating around social media and can be found at this link:

Meanwhile, yesterday Dr. Malone was prominently featured on the website of one of the “Disinformation Dozen,” Joe Mercola, a quack who’s been a frequent topic on this blog for his promotion of all manner of quackery and, since the pandemic hit, COVID-19 misinformation in an article called Scientific Journal Censorship With Dr. Malone. You might recall that in a stunt that allows him to portray himself as “persecuted,” Mercola erased all the previous content from his website and now only leaves his articles live for 48 hours, which means that this article will go away by tomorrow. Good thing I saved all the text and will quote liberally as needed. In any event, I guess that, apparently not satisfied with painting himself as a victim of “censorship” by Wikipedia, Malone is now crying “Censorship!” about scientific journals.

Further down the antivax rabbit hole goes “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Dr. Malone!

What interested me is how further down the antivax rabbit hole Dr. Malone has gone since last I wrote about him. Whenever one discusses Dr. Malone, though, it’s hard not to wonder about him. He claims to have invented mRNA vaccines, but he is now portraying COVID-19 vaccines based on a technology that encapsulates them in lipid nanoparticles as horrifically dangerous and potentially deadly, which makes me wonder: How, as “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” would Malone have designed the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines differently? Or is this just sour grapes based on the fact that two vaccines based on science that Malone had an early role developing over three decades ago has done so much good and he feels slighted because he hasn’t been acknowledged? (Never mind that the pathway from his observations to safe and effective vaccines had so many steps between it that for him to call himself the “inventor of mRNA vaccines” is ludicrous in the extreme.)

Even though Malone has been spreading some antivax tropes about COVID-19 vaccines, I don’t recall his ever having gone so all-in that he produced a brief statement with more antivax disinformation in a more compact form than I recall ever having seen from him. I also love how Malone starts with that favorite of all antivax disclaimers, the “I’m not antivax” trope:

My name is Robert Malone, and I am speaking to you as a parent, grandparent, physician and scientist. I don’t usually read from a prepared speech, but this is so important that I wanted to make sure that I get every single word and scientific fact correct.

I stand by this statement with a career dedicated to vaccine research and development. I’m vaccinated for COVID and I’m generally pro-vaccination. I have devoted my entire career to developing safe and effective ways to prevent and treat infectious diseases.

Before you inject your child – a decision that is irreversible – I wanted to let you know the scientific facts about this genetic vaccine, which is based on the mRNA vaccine technology I created…

This would sound so very, very reasonable were it not for what follows, namely pretty much every variety of antivaccine claim that you can think of about COVID-19 vaccines, many of which I’ve written about on multiple occasions. Whenever I see this bit about supposedly not being antivaccine and how an antivaxxer making that claim has been vaccinated, I say: So what? Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., for instance, frequently claims to be “fiercely pro-vaccine” and points to his having vaccinated his children according to CDC guidelines as proof. The problem, in his case is that his youngest child would thus have been fully vaccinated before he had learned of the antivaccine claim that the mercury in the thimerosal preservative that was used in some childhood vaccines until around 2001 was a major cause of the “autism epidemic.” That’s why I always ask: What happened between then and your turn to the Dark Side? In RFK Jr.’s case, something happened between his last child and around 2005, when he made his first big antivax splash by publishing his conspiracy mongering article Deadly Immunity. With Malone, one wonders if, having expressed his sour grapes about mRNA vaccines and finding that he had become culturally relevant and famous in a way that he had never achieved before and can probably never achieve in any other way, he just kept going further and further into conspiracytown about COVID-19 and mRNA vaccines.

Whatever the reason, Malone is indisputably antivax right now. Just take a look at more of the statement, starting with the “three issues parents need to understand.” Here’s issue one:

The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children’s cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins. These proteins often cause permanent damage in children’s critical organs, including
  • Their brain and nervous system
  • Their heart and blood vessels, including blood clots
  • Their reproductive system
  • And this vaccine can trigger fundamental changes to their immune system

To which he adds:

The most alarming point about this is that once these damages have occurred, they are irreparable
  • You can’t fix the lesions within their brain
  • You can’t repair heart tissue scarring
  • You can’t repair a genetically reset immune system, and
  • This vaccine can cause reproductive damage that could affect future generations of your family

That part about the vaccine “triggering fundamental changes to their immune system” is, of course, true in that the vaccine will trigger immunity to COVID-19, including the development of antibody-producing cells and memory cells that can respond when the immune system encountered the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (which is used as the antigen) again. That’s how all vaccines work. In fact, that’s how “natural immunity” works as well. I’ll go beyond that and say that that’s how the immune system in general works. It’s also most assuredly a good thing, not the scary thing that Malone is trying to portray (“genetically reset immune system” that, I note, does not require “repair”). Think of it this way. If encounters with antigens associated with diseases didn’t produce long-lasting or permanent changes in the immune system, then long-lasting (or lifelong) immunity would be impossible. If the “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Malone doesn’t know that, then he’s definitely not qualified, and if he does know that he’s a liar.

Nor do the vaccines cause “reproductive damage.” This particular trope is a very old trope that has been used against vaccines ever since I started paying attention to the antivaccine movement. So of course this piece of misinformation was resurrected for COVID-19 vaccines—and with astonishing speed, having appeared as early as when the vaccines were first rolling out a year ago. It’s all of a piece with the long history of antivaxxers portraying vaccines as “sterilizing our womenfolk.” Examples abound from around the world, for example, from the conspiracy theory promoted by Catholic bishops in Kenya that the tetanus vaccine is “racist population control” and that the false claim in Africa and the Philippines (among other places) that the polio vaccine can impair female fertility, while in some Muslim countries the campaign to eradicate polio has long been plagued by conspiracy theories that claim that the polio vaccine is laced with anti-fertility chemicals that would render their girls sterile before they even became women (and/or can also infect them with HIV) as part of a plot to depopulate the developing world. Unsurprisingly, the vaccine most commonly falsely cited by antivaxxers as causing female infertility is the HPV vaccine, particularly Gardasil, which is blamed without evidence for premature ovarian failure, usually based on some hand waving misunderstanding of immunology attributing this “effect” to some vaguely defined autoimmune phenomenon. This claim that a specific vaccine (or vaccines) can cause infertility is what I like to refer to as a “slasher” lie, because, like the killers in 1980s slasher movies, who appear to have been finally killed at the end of one installment, these lies always manage to somehow survive to kill more teenagers in the next movie. So of course, Malone is parroting it.

As for the issue with myocarditis, there does appear to be an increased risk of myocarditis associated with mRNA vaccines, particularly in teenaged boys, but the cases have been nearly uniformly mild, and the risk of myocarditis from COVID-19 is a lot higher, as a pediatric cardiologist will tell you. Then there’s Malone’s claim that the spike protein from vaccines somehow damages the brain and neurological system. Try as I might, I couldn’t find what the heck he was talking about; that is, unless he’s parroting the ridiculous and easily refuted claim that COVID-19 vaccines induce Alzheimer’s disease or prion diseases like Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease which they do not. Even if the fear mongering about “prion domains” in the spike protein were clinically relevant, one simply has to point out that the amount of spike protein that gets into the bloodstream is infinitesimal compared to the huge amount that gets into the bloodstream in the event of infection. So, even if Malone’s claim were true, getting vaccinated would still be far, far less dangerous than getting COVID-19. (Also, the claim that vaccines cause prion disease is another old antivax trope!)

Next up:

The second thing you need to know about is the fact that this novel technology has not been adequately tested.
  • We need at least 5 years of testing/research before we can really understand the risks
  • Harms and risks from new medicines often become revealed many years later

Ask yourself if you want your own child to be part of the most radical medical experiment in human history.

Of course, mRNA vaccines (and adenovirus-based vaccines like the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine) have been in development for decades. Indeed, it’s been speculated that if the pandemic had hit five years ago, the technology wouldn’t have been ready. More importantly, the concern about “long term” harms from vaccines is a dubious claim beloved of antivaxxers going back decades, when the “long term” harms falsely attributed to the vaccines were autism, cancer, and autoimmune disease. In fact, examples of any sort of harm caused by vaccines that wasn’t discovered early are quite rare, as I discussed when Paul Thacker brought up the same concern. Basically, adverse events from vaccines almost always manifest themselves early, not many months or years later, which is why we can be very confident that, unlike the case with COVID-19 itself, massive long term health problems due to the vaccine are highly unlikely. That doesn’t stop Malone from parroting another favorite antivax lie about COVID-19 vaccines, namely that it’s all a big experiment, which is a lie that antivaxxers have been parroting about vaccines in general and the childhood vaccination schedule since long before I ever paid attention.

This all leads Malone to his third and final point:

One final point: the reason they’re giving you to vaccinate your child is a lie.
  • Your children represent no danger to their parents or grandparents
  • It’s actually the opposite. Their immunity, after getting COVID, is critical to save your family if not the world from this disease

In summary: there is no benefit for your children or your family to be vaccinating your children against the small risks of the virus, given the known health risks of the vaccine that as a parent, you and your children may have to live with for the rest of their lives.

The risk/benefit analysis isn’t even close.

As a parent and grandparent, my recommendation to you is to resist and fight to protect your children.

This is, once again, more antivaccine misinformation. First, anyone who can transmit an infectious disease, whether the disease makes that particular person (in this case a child) really sick or not, is a danger to susceptible people who can catch the disease and become very ill (or even die) from it, such as older people like grandparents. The second point seems to be an echo of the Great Barrington Declaration nonsense about letting COVID-19 rip through populations who are less likely to become ill from it in order to achieve “natural herd immunity.” Unfortunately, “natural herd immunity” requires that a very large proportion of the population catch the virus, putting them at risk for serious disease and potentially death. As I’ve said time and time again, that’s basically just eugenics. In fact, Malone is even worse than the Great Barrington Declaration in that he doesn’t even mention “focused protection” of those at risk for serious disease and death. While it’s true that, before vaccines, it was impossible to protect such people while such a disease is spreading widely through the population, given that vaccines are not 100% effective and the new Omicron variant clearly has significant resistance to both “natural” and vaccine-induced immunity, I can only ask: WTF was Malone thinking here?

As for the risk-benefit ratio for the vaccine being too poor to justify its use in children, that’s simply not true. The vaccine is very safe, and, although children are at much lower risk of severe disease, hospitalization, and death due to COVID-19, the risk-benefit ratio for the vaccine is still very favorable. Malone is peddling antivaccine disinformation again.

Ivermectin, conspiracies, and persecution

Unsurprisingly, “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Dr. Malone is peddling a persecution narrative again. As with the case of his conspiracy mongering about being “erased” from Wikipedia, he’s confusing quality control and peer review for “censorship”:

Her second interview with Malone is above. You can now hear some of the points that have been censored, starting with scientific censorship at medical journals. Malone has had multiple peer-reviewed papers seeking to repurpose existing medications as COVID-19 treatments blocked from publication by journals.

In one example, Malone and colleagues found that combined treatment with celecoxib, a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug, and high-dose famotidine, a heartburn drug sold under the brand name Pepcid, led to improved outcomes among COVID-19 patients, including 100% survival.3 It’s been repeatedly rejected for publication.

Malone was also a former guest editor of a special issue of Frontiers in Pharmacology, which published an abstract of a peer-reviewed study by Pierre Kory on ivermectin for COVID-19 — until it was pulled due to a third-party complaint, with no chance for resubmission.

“That was completely inexplicable,” Malone said. “Some third party complained to Frontiers and successfully had that pulled, even though it had passed peer review with an expert panel of peer reviewers including senior reviewers from the FDA.”4

Again, ivermectin is the new hydroxychloroquine in that it is a repurposed drug that COVID-19 contrarians and antivaxxers have latched onto as a “miracle cure” for COVID-19 even though the evidence now clearly shows that it almost certainly does not work, with all the large “positive” studies having been shown to be either highly dubious or outright fraudulent. It’s not surprising that “mRNA vaccine inventor” Robert Malone would be attracted to it.

In any event, here’s a report on what really happened:

The editors of Frontiers in Pharmacology have taken down an article about the use of the antiparasitic drug ivermectin in COVID-19 patients. The paper, which was written by members of an organization called the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), had been provisionally accepted and posted in abstract form by the journal in January, but was ultimately rejected this Monday (March 1). The editors determined that it contained unsubstantiated claims and violated the journal’s editorial policies.

By the end of last week, the abstract had been viewed more than 85,000 times, according to snapshots available on the internet archive.

And then:

A special issue of Frontiers in Pharmacology on repurposing existing drugs as COVID-19 treatments has been axed following a dispute between the journal’s publisher and the issue’s guest editors over which submissions should be accepted.

The dissolution of the issue, which was entitled “Treating COVID-19 with Currently Available Drugs,” is the latest move in a row that’s continued for weeks. At the beginning of March, Frontiers issued a rejection for a manuscript on the antiparasitic drug ivermectin that had been provisionally accepted, after the publisher identified “a series of strong, unsupported claims” in the paper and determined that it did “not offer an objective nor balanced scientific contribution,” Frontiers’s chief executive editor Frederick Fenter said in a statement at the time. 

So Malone invited Pierre Kory of the conspiracy mongering quack group Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC)? That fits. In fact, what I’d argue is that this doesn’t represent “censorship,” but rather a massive failure on the part of the editors of Frontiers in Pharmacology that, when their special issue blew up in their faces in a most humiliating fashion (as anyone with any knowledge of Malone or Kory could have told them that it would), they frantically tried to course-correct and salvage something.

Moving on, I was curious about this; so I looked up Malone’s study on celecoxib and high-dose famotidine, cited by Mercola, which is still up as a pre-print at SSRN. It’s from July 2020 and is very unimpressive, a consecutive case series of 25 COVID-19 hospitalized patients treated with celecoxib and high dose famotidine as adjuvant therapy. Malone concluded that “combined treatment with oral celecoxib and HD famotidine in an adjuvant setting was associated with 100% survival and improved radiographic outcomes, as well as statistically significant improvements in clinical, biomarker, and renal function measurements.” The problem, of course, is that he can’t know that, given that there was no control group (using data from another source as controls doesn’t cut it) and this was a very small case series to make any firm conclusions about, particularly since all the patients also received standard-of-care at the time in addition to Malone’s drug cocktail. (In fairness, I will concede that there were modestly interesting correlative measures studied.)

To be honest, I’m surprised that this study wasn’t published back in July 2020, given that I saw a lot of other really crappy papers like this published back then, but I can definitely say one thing. While this sort of thrown-together case series might have cut it in the very early days of the pandemic, it doesn’t cut it now. Not by a long shot. It also makes me wonder which journals Malone has been submitting this manuscript to.

Oh wait:

The ivermectin paper was officially rejected on March 1. Frontiers removed the paper’s abstract from the website, and Fenter and colleagues began an audit of other papers in the issue. By then, one of Malone’s papers, a discussion of the possible mechanisms of famotidine against COVID-19, had been accepted. (It was published on March 23.)

On March 11, another paper coauthored by Malone—which reported a case series of 25 patients treated at a community hospital with a combination of famotidine and the anti-inflammatory drug celecoxib and had not been provisionally accepted—was rejected at the post-review stage. The primary reason was that uncontrolled case studies of patients can’t provide new or meaningful insights into a drug’s effects in COVID-19, particularly since those patients were also receiving other drugs such as vitamin C in addition to famotidine and celecoxib, according to an email explaining the decision sent to the authors by one of Frontiers in Pharmacology’s chief editors.

Again, it’s a crappy case series, but a lot of crappy case series on COVID-19 therapeutics were published in the spring and summer of 2020. It amuses me that this one happened to be one that peer review actually appropriately triaged.

I’ll conclude by quoting Malone one more time to show just how unhinged he’s become:

If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.12 They’re at the top of a pyramid that controls basically everything, but you don’t hear about their terrifying monopoly because they also own the media.

Blackrock and Vanguard hold large interests in pivotal companies, and Vanguard holds a large share of Blackrock. In turn, Blackrock has been called the “fourth branch of government” by Bloomberg as they are the only private firm that has financial agreements to lend money to the central banking system.13

Aside from world media, the companies controlled by Blackrock and Vanguard span everything from entertainment and airlines to social media and communications. “We’re experiencing a threat of global slavery of the entire population to these financial interests,” Malone said.

And, of course, Malone believes we’re all a victim of a “mass psychosis,” quoted here by Mercola:

The governments, out of desperation, are flailing around. That’s what’s really happening is they don’t understand it. They don’t. They think that they have no other options. They are hypnotized into believing that the vaccines work. They’ve been bombarded by all this lobbying and information control and everything else to believe that the vaccines are effective.

Even though we know they aren’t, the data show that they aren’t, it doesn’t matter. You can’t penetrate through them. Why? Because they’ve undergone mass psychosis … the politicians have, they believe that this is the case and they believe that they have to do these [authoritarian] measures because there’s no other option than mass vaccination.

I like to say that all quackery eventually leads to antivax. I’ve said it time and time again, and, if anything, the COVID-19 pandemic has confirmed this adage. However, there’s another adage. I’ve argued that all science denial is rooted in conspiracy theory and that, in particular, denial of the efficacy and safety of vaccines demonstrates that adage better than almost any other. I’ll now add to that another observation. The longer one immerses oneself in antivax conspiracy mongering, the farther and farther from reality one drifts—and the deeper and deeper into a wider variety of conspiracy theories, too. The “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” Dr. Robert Malone, is a perfect example of this. Whatever first unmoored him from reality with respect to COVID-19 vaccines set him on a path to embracing all manner of conspiracy theories and projecting his own detachment from reality about vaccines and COVID-19 onto everyone else, particularly those trying to counter his misinformation.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

1,060 replies on “Dr. Robert Malone goes full antivaccine conspiracist”

Is it possible to believe in the safety and efficacy of vaccines such as MMR, Tdap, polio, and their ilk, and yet have serious concerns with the safety and/or efficacy of the relatively untested (by comparison) mRNA vaccines?

Yes, but that’s clearly NOT what Dr. Malone and his fellow COVID-19 antivaxxers are doing. Attributing medical complications to the vaccine that are clearly not due to the vaccine is one “tell.” Another “tell” is his persecution complex. The biggest “tell,” though, is his roping common conspiracy theories about other things into his conspiracy theories about vaccines, plus his projection that governments and pro-vaccine advocates are a victim of a “mass psychosis.”

Do you hold a medical degree or have experience creating vaccines, or experience in epidemiology in any way?

(Staying at a holiday Inn express last night doesn’t count.)

@Thanks All post graduate degrees are based on undergraduate accreditation. Medical doctors are required to have a Bachelor of Science, per AMA regulations.
When people have a BA standard of education, they tend to use sophistry. After all they have poor concept of objective information, as arts degrees are based on group think consensus.
Opinion nor consensus are true. Yet most members of the (state) BAR hold a BA. They’ve been conning the world by sophistry, using terms like law.
Law is from the Latin for ‘Ultimate’ or highest truth.
It’s used in science to describe thing that are 100% repeatable, such as math and physics.
The legal system was created for the Corona/Crown by Roman Catholic church as a means of justifying witch trials. Trials used to protect the pederast, and VD spreading degenerates.
Successful BA holder must resort to sophistry, as their group think consensus is based on subjective opinions. The always use the term understand, to stand under, as comprehension requires knowledge of the objective.

The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time.

Okay Orac, please provide links to the databases, or agencies, that are compiling hard evidence regarding vaccine reactions…in other words, please prove your assertion that Malone is citing cases of problems that are proven unrelated to vaccine complications….you are about as transparent as Malone, CDC, McCollugh, etc…you make sweeping assertions, offer zero sources or references, and expect people to believe you because of your credentials. Credentials != Credible

Sure. Here you go:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/cisa/
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/workshops-meetings-conferences-biologics/public-workshop-sentinel-post-licensure-rapid-immunization-safety-monitoring-prism-system

And, of course, there’s VAERS, which was never intended to provide an accurate estimate of the incidence of adverse events after vaccination, but rather to be a hypothesis-generating system whose hypotheses then go on to be tested by these other system, particularly the VSD.

Orac, I appreciate the links you provided in response to my request for links to the databases, or agencies, that are compiling hard evidence regarding vaccine reactions.

I asked for those links in the context of Malone, and how such links would support your assertion that Malone is conflating vaccine reactions with unrelated medical issues.

You failed in supporting your assertions, as the links you sent provide no such evidence.

Btw, those agencies you sent links to are completely and totally inadequate to track data specific to the mass immunization campaign of covid–and I believe you know that is true.

Those programs all pre-date covid by years if not decades, and they are designed to track data for multiple medical conditions and purposes–they are not designed with the covid mass immunization program in mind.

Those programs are also specific to a handful of reporting institutions–and that handful in no way represents the myriad number of doctors, pharmacies, medical groups and hospitals that are administering the covid vaccine. It is self evident that the agencies you sent links are not capturing any where near the full data picture of the covid immunization.

Plus, in order to report on the systems associated with the links you sent, the reporting organization needs to have its data systems able to communicated with the the agency collecting the data–which is likely why only a handful of medical systems are reporting into these agencies.

In short, you failed to prove anything about Malone. And, your links prove exactly Malone’s point that data does not exist, and is not being collected in a meaningful AND ACCESSIBLE way, such that the public can draw any conclusions.

Btw, those agencies you sent links to are completely and totally inadequate to track data specific to the mass immunization campaign of covid–and I believe you know that is true.

I know that VAERS is inadequate. I know nothing of the sort about these other systems.

Those programs all pre-date covid by years if not decades, and they are designed to track data for multiple medical conditions and purposes–they are not designed with the covid mass immunization program in mind.

And now begins the goalpost moving. You asked for systems. I linked to systems. You tried to ignore that at first, but, now that you can’t, are claiming without basis or evidence that these systems are inadequate and saying you’ll only be satisfied by a very narrow, specific system. Very predictable. Yawn.

Law is from the Latin for ‘Ultimate’ or highest truth.

No. I’m not even going to bother with the rest.

The only thing that’s funner than “proof by etymology” is “proof by made-up etymology”.

Anti-vaxxer? How do you call the inventor behind the MRNA that? Especially one who hit double jabbed? Enjoy your slow painful vaxxed death demon.

@ rushr7

“Enjoy your slow painful vaxxed death demon.”

Aaaaaaarrrrrrghhh! I’m dying !! I’m dying !! I’m dying !!!

Pfffffffff…. Hilarious….

If only it was that easy to die…

Psychosis: radical changes in personality, impaired functioning, and a distorted or nonexistent sense of objective reality.

What does so-called “mass psychosis” look like?

Is accusing a supporter of vaccination of being demonic, a psychotic reaction?
Is accusing an opponent of vaccination of being a bio-terrorist, a psychotic reaction?

Is buying & wearing a PPE mask, clearly labelled on the packaging when sold as having no medical or health benefits to the wearer, and offering no protection from respiratory viruses, a psychotic behavior?

Is manufacturing of psychosis an endgame in an environment of hyper-polarization, where we have supposedly demons vs bio-terrorists?

Manufactured mass psychosis has been a social control tool used via despotic media totalitarianist regimes in the early part of the 20th C.

Are the people who see parallels between those times and today, psychotic?

What is “gray-area, hybrid warfare”?

What is “mass formation”?

(You could win a carrot, if you can effectively answer all these questions)

@Cthulhu I really want to see a mask package claiming that it is useless. I guess that you should pick a better one.

@Aarno
https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/reusable-printed-fabric-face-cover-pink-stars-3659445

This isn’t the exact one I saw but is something very similar.
Note the website blurb states “Not for medical or surgical use”

It only shows the front of the package – but I feel sure that if the rear was displayed it would have fine print saying something like “The use of this mask implies no medical or health benefits to the wearer and will not prevent the transmission of respiratory viruses” which is what the mask packaging I saw had on it.

Note: There is no PPE manufacturing standard quoted for this item.

This is how I know the whole mask thing is entirely theatrical.

I have a friend who procures PPE for workers using high-pressure water hoses to clean oil-based paints and inks off surfaces. He told me the most important factor with any PPE is to have a clear explanation of exactly what the PPE protects the user against – and what it doesn’t protect against. And a manufacturing standard to prove it.

Where a social requirement for a face covering is stipulated, I feel sure the useless cloth mask would be considered acceptable – even though it is completely useless. People without masks have been harassed for their lack of compliance, but has a mask wearer ever had their mask inspected to see if it performs any useful function at all?
Never.

Would a supermarket security guard etc, have the slightest idea what the term “N95” means – or how to identify a mask made to that specification?
Nope.

“Choose a better one” What does that mean to the average person who has no concept of PPE specs? My wife would choose one that cost a bit more because it had some glittery sequins sewn on the front. Much better, you see?

The whole mask thing is theatre.

@Cthulhu Mask in yout link was not a medical mask. “Reusable” ? All masks I use are disposable.

@Aarno
Good grief – this is hard work.

Yes – I am fully aware that it is not a medical mask: It is a fashion accessory and about as much use as sticky taping an old sock around your face.

But these things are cheap and being sold in their 10s of thousands to people who want to comply with the requirement to wear a “face covering” – because by wearing such a useless item, you are considered to be compliant with the rules.

But the “rules” are idiotic – because there are no rules – other than you have something wrapped around the lower half of your face.

So without this “something” stuck on the lower half of your face – be it that mask I showed you, a dead squirrel or a cheese sandwich – you will incur a £200 fine on the London underground.

In fact it would not surprise me if you could draw a mask on your face with a felt pen, give a cheery wave to the cross-eye goons that are the British Transport Police as you walked past them, and avoid the fine in this way.

PS If any Brits reading this are thinking of using a dead squirrel as a face covering whilst riding the London underground – you may need an entirely separate licence to be in possession of a dead furry animal on a public transport system.

If you make inquiries at most major post offices you should be able to obtain the required application form.

Thanks.

I just need to say Malone sounds far more grounded in science, and morality, and most certainly expresses his views far more respectfully of others who do not share his views, that you do here with your highly charged emotional language, and arrogant stance. The mass formation is a very useful theory to look at what may be going on in our society, and to understand why the media and people like you, spend so much time fabricating conflict and hysteria, in order to get people on board with the agenda.

I just need to say Malone sounds far more grounded in science, and morality, and most certainly expresses his views far more respectfully of others who do not share his views…

“Expresses his views more respectfully”? You obviously haven’t seen the things he’s said and written about Katalin Karikó.???‍♂️

@pabob clinicaltrials.gov reports 17 clinical trials with famotidine, but no results, Problem is of course that famotidine is an anti ulcer medication

Dr. Malone is not antivaxxxer. He is just for safe vaccines and not for how fast they produced this one before trials were done. You can see for yourself on his website

Jenny McCarthy in 2007: “I’m not ‘antivaccine’; I’m pro-safe vaccine.”

She then is then unable or unwilling to define what to her would be a “safe vaccine” or if any of the vaccines currently in use are safe, as she rails against MMR and other vaccines as dangerous and full of “toxins.”

Robert Malone, MD in 2022: “I’m not ‘antivaccine.’ I’m for safe COVID vaccines.”

He is then unwilling or unable to articulate what would in his mind be a “safe COVID vaccine” or if any of the current COVID vaccines are safe, even as he portrays current COVID vaccines as ineffective and dangerous to the point of causing mass death.

Nope. Malone is antivax.

I feel dumber having read this. Dr. Malone is VACCINATED and has spent his entire career developing and researching them. Similarly to antibiotic resistance, by vaccinating the whole universe we’re making pathogens more resistant and creating vaccine escape variants such as omicron. Millions of thrice vaccinated people have gotten omicron. By trying to smear people, just shows how truly uneducated you and your followers are.

As I’ve said many times before, just because one has been vaccinated (or, before the pandemic, has vaccinated his children, as RFK Jr. loves to brag about) does not mean that you aren’t antivax, and Malone’s rhetoric and conspiracy theories are very, very antivax.

@DJ Omicron variant came from South Africa, a country with low vaccination rate. Actually, lots of COVID cases mean lots of mutations and lots of mutations means lots of escape variants.

While I’ve watched hours of interviews detailing the thoughts of Dr.Robert Malone, who IS the inventor of mRNA technology, hours of interviews featuring Dr. Peter McCullough, the most published author of peer reviewed medical findings in history, read the heavily cited and credible best selling book “The Real Anthony Fauci”, pored over the citations of this book and contemplated the thoughts put forth by the above doctors and the 60,000 doctors who have signed The Great Barrington Declaration, skeptically comparing with the main stream narrative which is supported in this article, I can only conclude that this article is nothing more than a baseless smear offering no real or true counter argument based fact.

Simply stating “they’re anti vaxxers” is not proof. Conflating traditional vaccines and memory B and T cells with experimental gene therapy which does not hinder the spread or offer sterilizing immunity, as other vaccines do, is not proof.

The thoughts represented in this article, rather, are a glaring example of someone failing to employ critical thinking while smearing those who have taken the time to think critically.

You sir, appear abundantly uninformed and proud of it.

Simply stating “they’re anti vaxxers” is not proof. Conflating traditional vaccines and memory B and T cells with experimental gene therapy which does not hinder the spread or offer sterilizing immunity, as other vaccines do, is not proof.

Your obvious copy pasta aside (seriously, can you even make the talking points sound a little difference?), I didn’t actually “just” call Dr. Malone antivaccine. I showed why what he was saying was antivaccine.

I’ve been following Dr. Malone for over one year now. It is amazing how so many responders resort to phrases like anti-vaxxer (Dr. Malone is fully vaccinated and has no “pretense” of being “anti-vaccine.” Perhaps those dipping low into “conspiracy theorist” labels should actually read the work of Mattias Desmit from Ghent University in Belgium. He is exactly correct in what he writes as is Dr. Malone.

If Dr. Malone is not “antivaccine,” why does he parrot so many antivaccine talking points, as I documented in this post?

I did a lot of research on Covid vaccines when they came out and subsequent. My conclusion was that it was experimental and should only be taken by high risk and elderly because there are too many unknowns. To say otherwise is illogical IMO.

The term anti-vaxxer was is now affixed to anyone who said maybe we shouldn’t indiscriminately vaccinate everyone. I am vaccine cautious, and if you are not, I don’t think you are well researched. Small pox, tetanus and proven vaccines are a no-brainer. mRNA vaccine are potentially dangerous – that is not debatable.

The biggest crime in all of this is that the basics of self care and especially Vitamin D supplementation was largely ignored. There was a more or less conclusive study out from Germany that correlated Vitamin D deficiency (pre-infection) to hospitalization. Further Ivermectin and other treatments have been demonized, when its/their efficacies seems apparent to me in the many credible studies I have read.

I stumbled onto this article when looking for the link below. It shows the possible damage to DNA that we were told is impossible.

While I assume you are well intentioned, attacking people who dissent from the vaccine and calling them names is wrong. I think you are engaging in this behavior.

Vaccinated children with mRNA is immoral and that is Malone’s main issue. Malone has gone too far and lost his way in some respects. I just think he was a scientist who got in over his head with the nut jobs out there and reacted poorly at times. He is still credible and rightfully called this vaccine into question.

If you want to get vaccinated I respect that. If I don’t I should be respected. That is called mutual respect.

I do wish you well
Curt

DNA Study
https://www.riotimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Pfizer-RNA-into-DNA.pdf

Regarding that study, just no. It does NOT show what you think it shows.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-return-of-the-revenge-of-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-permanently-alter-your-dna-and-lab-leak/

As for:

The term anti-vaxxer was is now affixed to anyone who said maybe we shouldn’t indiscriminately vaccinate everyone.

Nope, because even the most pro- of the provaccine advocates do not advocate “indiscriminately” vaccinating “everyone.” That is the antivax straw man characterization of the position of vaccine advocates.

Why does it seem like every week or so a new “Person” appears to say they feel attacked for their “Research” and touting goddamn ivermectin? AGAIN. This garbage seems orchestrated.

I’m not going to waste time going over the fact the ivermectin DOES NOT WORK. This is based on REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. The proof is laying in a gurney on five drips across the hall from me. I’ve beat this horse enough.

@ Curtis,

Did the Swedish authors ever get around to sequencing the DNA to show that the mRNA was incorporated into it? Without that, all they’ve got is a highly artificial situation that shows nothing.

I suggest you watch this video for more details.

https://youtu.be/OCs_lgoKDRw

Which Covid-19 vaccine did you conclude was experimental and how?
I found this definition of “experimental”

an intervention or regimen that has shown some promise as a cure or ameliorative for a disease or condition but is still being evaluated for efficacy, safety, and acceptability.

Since all three vaccines approved in the U.S. and two more that will be seeking approval soon have completed that evaluation and published their results, they can no longer be considered experimental in that sense.

Another definition of experimental is

a medicinal product (a drug or vaccine) that has not yet received approval from governmental regulatory authorities for routine use in human or veterinary medicine.

Since three vaccines have received bull FDA licensing at least for adults, they do not fit that definition either.

It seems you come from the “no car is safe enough for Ralph Nader” school of pro-safe vaccine advocacy. /s

After all daily deaths are down to ‘only’ 1700 now. What’s the rush? /s

As for Ivermectin, we now have randomized controlled trials showing that molnupiravir and Paxlovid both reduce the likelihood of hospitalization and death in people infected while similar trials for Ivermectin have shown no benefit.

So until we get a result showing Ivermectin has a real clinical benefit, it must remain “experimental”.

The comments are disturbing because he is speaking the truth. Keep Big Pharma in business along with all the other people that are paid off. You don’t want the truth because it would stop the gravy train!

@Andy
What is the ‘truth’? Were the vaccines not tested enough? How many more people do you think need to be vaccine? How much more data do you need?

It’s a mistake to mix up the medical issues with the business practices.

Neither does it mean they have been adequately tested. Only time, and the future good health will answer that question. Myself I will continue to avoid having to waitr and wonder.

Actually Malone is far more correct than you are.
You’re not a communist obviously, a neoshitlib maybe but I don’t know you.
Fact is you’re mostly wrong and the one peddling misinformation based on big pharma propaganda.

I find the evolving situation highly suspicious, especially given data that has emerged since Dec 2020!

Surely there is no intelligent person here, who would recommend every healthy child on the planet take this experimental therapy?

In the UK only 19 children without PECs, have died within 60 days of a Covid positive test. Some argue the figure is actually zero in healthy children. Regardless, it’s so low it’s almost zero! And it’s possible they could have died of other causes, an undiagnosed co-morbidity, or even flu, which as we know does kill children and mysteriously vanished last year. Does anyone have additional data to prove my point?

So IMO Inoculating children is nonsensical!

In any case, our own innate immunity has been evolving alongside millions of bacteria/viruses probably long before we ever crawled onto dry land?

In contrast it seems common sense, that expecting a rushed experimental inoculation to perform the miraculous task of doing a better job in protecting healthy people, than our bodies own pharmacies, was at best wishful thinking! QED – Approx. 99.78% of healthy people under 65 recover fine and then have broad spectrum long lasting antibodies.

So!

Can anyone give me good reason why we should allow Pharma/MSM to coerce parents into giving this experimental inoculation to healthy children.
Can anyone explain why scientists are not allowed to challenge and debate openly?

Especially now it is clear that 2 injections cannot solve the problem and inoculation’s do not work, as promised.

Is anyone prepared to take 4 shots per year, for life?
Does anyone ‘still’ believe that the inoculation is a better solution to the virus in healthy people, than the natural health provided by our very own innate pharmacies?
Does anyone ‘really’ still believe in a miracle inoculation created in record time, or are you just to scared to admit to your friends you called this one wrong!

A Quick summary WRT Experimental Inoculation.

Governments give billions in tax payer money to develop experimental/miracle cure in record time. Pharma and it’s share holders keep the profit!
Governments create new laws to prohibit those injured from suing, for harm or death.
Media and government spend 100’s of millions more of tax payers money trying to coerce (and even), mandate everyone to take an experimental product.
Pharma refuse to share the detailed data for shots, which might show proof of safety, or more likely harm, in original trials!
Soon after miracle cure rolled out various sources of evidence emerge showing miracle cures seem to do more harm than good!

Pharma and media attack this evidence and any scientist or medical doctor with a dissenting opinion!
But no one in Pharma/Government/Media or science dares to debate these scientists in an open and transparent situation!

The FDA asked a judge to grant it 75 years to fully release the documents in its possession tied to the approval of the shots!
Everyone involved in promoting this horrific mess doubles down on the original narrative, despite many adjustments to the narrative!
Many millions are spent censoring any scientist or medical doctor who disagrees with the MSM/Pharma narrative! No time is spent debating these scientists to see if they are right. But they are subsequently attacked at every possible level including their livelihoods!

Anyway that’s sums up my simplified view.

Good Luck With Your Dreams!

Namaste

You count only dead children, and even then only ones that have died only 60 days after COVID diagnosis. Do tou notice the problem ?
You could read FDA analysis of clinical trials. You could read follow up studies. These are public

Christine Massey used the FOIA to ask over 70 health organizations including the CDC if they have 1 isolated purified sample of Sars Cov2. CDC FOIA officer Roger Andoh wrote Ms. Massey back and admitted they nor anybody else has 1 isolated purified sample of Sars Cov2. How do you make a vaccine or a test if you don’t have a sample of the Virus you’re trying to cure? Millions of people have had Covid 19 but you don’t have 1 sample. Hey Orac. The jig is up. People are waking up.

That claim is, quite simply, bullshit. Lots of labs have purified samples of SARS-CoV-2, including the variants. Seriously, dude. That claim was debunked by March 2020, and, hilariously, is not, as far as I know, a claim that even Dr. Malone has made. Antivax he might be, but he doesn’t deny the existence of the coronavirus.

My Family in India did not know they were white supremacist and have been taking IVM ZINC and Vit D for over a year now. I’ll let them now. Is t possible the west cant believe a bunch of brown people figured this out.

You claim India’s ministry of health is staffed with white people ? They figured all by themselves that ivermectin does not work. Kory and Senator Johnson are very white persons, too.

That’s so crazy that the patents in his name dated 1987 and 1988 free date anyone else’s claims that’s just crazy that they got that wrong. This is public information accessible by anybody who bothers to look it up that makes it even more dangerous anybody who looks that up will believe the lie that the patent office is giving.

I have a question about altering the immune system. Does the fact that a vaccine leads to creation of antibodies and memory cells actually alter the immune system itself, or is it just an instant of its operating the way it’s supposed to, with the system itself remaining unchanged?

To the question above: you can have concerns about COVID-19 vaccines compared to other vaccines, yes. But if you think they’re untested, you’ve been misled. These vaccines have undergone large clinical trials in tens of thousands of people and have since been given to hundreds of millions with very intense monitoring. They’re as tested as can be, even if we do not know all, yet (and the things we do not know are, for example, duration of immunity with, say, a three-dose series, which will inevitably take time). So you can have concerns – and if you do, you should raise them and look for answers from credible sources, like: https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/making-vaccines/prevent-covid

But you should also be careful not to be misled. There’s a lot of misinformation out there.

Still, the inoculations have not been out there long enough to know what the data is. It is NOT a vaccine like polio that was tested for at least 7 years! It is not the same as this Covid 19 gene therapy. It takes at least 5 years for the data to prove that it is safe. So until then, this is a gene therapy “EXPERIMENT “.

Soqui- Salk first tested his vaccine in pilot studies on monkeys, himself, his family and his team: this was 1951/52. Then on inmates of two Care institutions and some of their staff. He published his JAMA paper, 28 March 1954. Sabin ( his competitor) was hostile to the Salk vaccine development. The field trial began Monday,9 a.m. April 1954. The vaccine was finally given, double blinded to 419,000 children and placebo to 330,000 children. A further 232,000 children were vaccinated with their knowledge while another 800,000 received no injection and were followed up to see the results. The last injections were given in late June 1954.
Analysis of the millions of bits of information was conducted at the Vaccine Evaluation Centre at Ann Arbor ( previously the maternity hospital for his sons’ births) led by Tom Francis. His report was announced on 12 April 1955 and showed 80-90 per cent reduction in risk after vaccination. In very short time ( hours) Salk’s vaccine ( 27 million doses already prepared in the eventuality of success) was given the OK for licensing and immediate use. Hardly 7 years, as you wrote, for it’s development. Two brilliant books ( among many) on the subject are ‘Paralysed With Fear: The Story of Polio’ by Gareth Williams and ‘Patenting The Sun: Polio and the Salk Vaccine’ by Jane S Smith

You say they were extensively tested but we were told cardiac issues were no more than the general population, now governments are arranging payouts for people with carditis among other issues (89,000 in australia alone). They are still learning! EUA and zero liability was for a reason.

Without sources, I can’t discuss the specifics of your claims.
However, these vaccines received the same 3 phase testing as other vaccines. It went quickly because there was plenty of funding to set up testing locations and the disease was rampant so it didn’t take long to accumulate enough cases to assess the efficacy. The phase 3 trials were pretty much normal size for vaccines, about 30,000 to 45,000. That’s enough to detect 1 in 1000 risk factors. To detect 1 in 10,000 or1 in 100,000 factors you would need a huge trial that would take too long to organize and recruit volunteers. So we do Phase 4 monitoring which has detected the CVST/TTS problem in the Janssen vaccine and the myocarditis problem in the mRNA vaccines.

Myocarditis/Pericarditis research is ongoing using VAERS, the VSD and other sources. It seems to be about a 1 in 100,000 risk, whereas the IFR from Covid-19 is about 300-700 per 100,000.

It is quite appropriate to compensate people who develop an adverse effect like that. For most U.S. vaccines, this is done through the VICP, but because of the emergency approval for the Covid-19 vaccines this is being done through the CICP instead.

The EUA was because we were and still are in an emergency situation. 1000 people were dying every day in November 2020 and it went up to 2500 per day in December. We are running over 1000 a day now as well. However as we have accumulated more months of experience with these vaccines, the CDC has given full licensure for certain vaccines and age groups.

There are no tens of thousands of payments for COVID-19 vaccines harms in Australia. As best as I can tell, this specific bit of misinformation came from here – https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/12/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-update-21-december-2021.pdf – and it is talking about, in one state, 86.000 disaster relief payments for COVID-19.

Australia’s compensation scheme just opened mid-December. It doesn’t look like it has anything near that number of claims filed yet. The news article says over 10,000 expressed interest in filing a claim – not filed.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme-now-open

Anti-vaccine leaders do not value accuracy, and are misleading their followers.

Dorit Reiss

The news article says over 10,000 expressed interest in filing a claim – not filed.

And the form to register an expression of interest in filing a claim takes only contact details; no details of the claim are taken:
https://www.health.gov.au/about-us/contact-us/register-interest-in-claims-scheme

The scheme is now open for actual claim submission. A claim needs to be for one of a set of specific serious COVID vaccination side-effects, and in most cases requires that the claimant was hospitalised at least overnight. Minor COVID vaccination side-effects are explicitly excluded.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme

There’s a link to the actual claim submission pages in that page.

Jord w:

people with carditis among other issues (89,000 in australia alone).

The Australian Theraputic Goods Administration’s (TGA) numbers are, not surprisingly, nowhere near as great as that:

<

blockquote>To 19 December 2021, the TGA has received 415 reports which have been assessed as likely to be myocarditis from about 26.2 million doses of Comirnaty (Pfizer) and 37 reports which have been assessed as likely to be myocarditis from about 1.5 million doses of Spikevax (Moderna).blockquote>
https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-23-12-2021

That’s a total of 452 cases. I’m not sure how you get from 452 to 89000. I’m sure Jord w would love to explain.

The TGA is Australia’s regulator of medicines and medical devices.

The “clinicla trials” for the current lethal injections are ongoing, and the global population are the “lab rats”, the guinea pigs for this experimental toxic drug combination. Your body is the testing ground. I wish you luck in this evil form of Russian Roulette.

— As I mentioned elsewhere, Malone, McCollough and a few other contrarians have appeared at quack-fraught sinkholes like PRN.com, @ high wire talk, Natural News, CHD. If you are a scientist/ physician shouldn’t you know how bad these sites/ their owners are?

— ” .. all quackery eventually leads to antivax.” said Orac
It has to because alties nearly exclusively promote “natural health” based upon substances grown on g-d’s green earth and “natural healing” by the body itself illustrating its innate ‘wisdom” ( or by an advanced spiritual energy practitioner).
Meds like drugs or vaccines are chemicalz produced by people in factories and are rather cringe inducing to the faithful.

Like hemlock, castor beans, jimson weed, nightshade, rosary pea…those are just off the top of my head. Natural af.

Nature has a lot of things that can kill you in an instant. To some people natural seems to mean ‘good’ and chemical ‘bad’.
Well, virusses and bacteria that can make people very ill and even kill people, are very natural and things that can cure might be chemical, so I prefer the latter.

Even the WHO has said that it doesn’t agree with vaccinating children. So I guess the WHO is quackery too? Its getting to the point that people who are middle ground or centrist see both sides as radicalized and conspiratorial. The only difference is that the fringe pro-vaxxers see anyone with common-sense caution as having an evil or other agenda (or crazy). Well, you guys look crazy too. I just wish the world would wake up and have some common sense. How many covid patients has the author of this blog treated, and what is his early treatment recommendations, other than to send the patient home to quarantine? I think doctors like McCullough, Malone, Chetty, and some others are the most sensible. They have real experience with covid, aren’t generally anti-vax (calling some of them this is weird and ridiculous), and have used treatment protocols that have worked. They are expressing the need for early treatment and raising questions regarding why nothing is being offered and why everything comes down to a vaccine or two new covid drugs that there hasn’t been the time to test whether there are/will be long term side effects etc. There is huge conflict of interest in those pushing these new treatments as THEY PROFIT FINANCIALLY FROM THEM. This is just common sense and I don’t get why there is so little of it in the world today. But go ahead, attack doctors who are raising concerns behind their backs instead of having (or demanding) open debate.

Some of these doctors are begging for open debate but the only venues they can be heard on are the right-wing ones. So, yeah, it makes them look bad to the left, but the fact the left won’t talk to them makes the left look bad to anyone who is centrist or on the right. Malone’s not talking about microchips. He is just being cautious. Malone isn’t recommending anything the WHO isn’t right now. So lighten up. Everyone is scared right now which deserves empathy on both sides. Both polarities are simply scared of opposite things right now and both sides are becoming more and more radicalized by each others stance or fears. This deserves empathy and compassion. If the left spews anger and acts like those afraid of the vax need to be punished or rounded up (I’ve even heard news sources say this kind of unstable stuff), then the right will starts to think the worst and like they need to have an uprising to protect themselves. If you’re not careful, you will both start a civil war. One side demanding a vax and the other thinking it will kill them. So, if mandates come down like in Austria (or even Australia), what do you think scared ppl with guns will do? Is vaccinating everyone worth this? Just calm down and start to find a common ground. The mental instability happening right now is astounding. All over a virus which I don’t know anyone who died or even had it bad. Which, for me, if this really isn’t a pandemic (I’m not saying there isn’t one, but I don’t see one), then this is all abuse, which, if so, we should be upset with our governments and not one another. If it leads to food shortages, hyperinflation, and homelessness, then this is an unforgivable mismanagement of a health crisis.

Both my daughter and partner are talking about suicide due to this whole thing (not from conspiracies but just feeling hopeless that the covid thing will never end). For two years, all you see when you turn on the news is about Covid. Forget all the vax stuff, what is happening isn’t mentally healthy. You have to weigh quality of life over trying to overprotect people. And when the vaccinated elderly die alone and are discouraged from seeing family on xmas etc (despite being boosted), you have to start weighing what is really important. My boosted aunt and uncle (in Canada) can’t travel to Australia to visit two family members who are dying of cancer. It is hard to know what is right or not, who is being humane and who isn’t. So, I think the only alternative is it has to be up to people themselves and not governments what treatments they want and what risks they take. Otherwise, you just end up trading one inhumanity for another, while people lose businesses, go homeless, commit suicide, etc. If people want to live their life scared that way, they should just stay home and let everyone else take the risks they want to take and live their lives. This has gone on long enough. Never in history has a collective been so cowardly in its pandemic ideology. In the past, it was considered saintly to visit lepers, as a test of a person’s humanity and courage, which leprosy is a hell of a lot scarier than Omicron.

Some of these doctors are begging for open debate but the only venues they can be heard on are the right-wing ones.

They’re not begging for “open debate.” They’re begging for a forum that falsely elevates them to appear to have equal validity to real scientists.

Sam:

[T]he WHO has said that it doesn’t agree with vaccinating children.

Where do they say that? They seem to be saying something rather different here:

Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.

More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

WHO’s Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice

Really?! Actually you’re comment points to evidence you live in denial and your ego needs a check. The truth is this claim your making is laughable as you talk of them wanting to be elevated to a real scientist?! No there is an agenda, and narrative to go with it and any scientist, some of the greatest scientist can’t be heard because they don’t follow the agenda therefore they are censored. So you keep living in your little world of denial but the reality is people can’t hear the truth because they don’t want the truth out! There are people like myself we go on uncensored platforms and we go we dig deep and we find truth. Wow! I find incredibly telling if you truly believe what you’re commenting on this thread

@Randi,

Whom are you addressing? You are the third reply to this comment and don’t seem to be talking about Sam’s comment.

I give most commenters the benefit of the doubt in assuming they genuinely believe what they are saying. Although there are always a few who are just trying to stir up an argument or barking for attention.

Who was censored when and in what forum?

Disagreeing with statements, refusing to accept them merely on the person’s say-so, or explaining why they are or might be wrong is not censorship.

For another take on that issue, I suggest you read this blog.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-gbd-is-silencing-me/

In science, seeing truth is an ongoing process that requires evaluating a wide body of evidence, which your comment is lacking.

In the past, it was considered saintly to visit lepers, as a test of a person’s humanity and courage

Well, they didn’t have masks.

which leprosy is a hell of a lot scarier than Omicron.

Um, if it weren’t for the animal reservoir, Hansen’s disease just might, just maybe be up for eradication some day.

I didn’t realize that there were four more books added to the six I read as a kid in the Thomas Covenant series, just by the by. I don’t think they were targeted at 10- to 11-year-olds, but at least I didn’t later need to be taught that no means no.

I’ve been preoccupied lately, but I wanted to check whether the Sam == Randi sockpuppetry was noted in due course. Give the four “likes,” it’s pretty much a given that there are two more of it.

Sam unfortunately the risks you take impinge on others’ lives to their detriment so adjudication has to occur about the balance of risks and our freedoms, by those we elected to govern ( guided by an up to date science) Also you omit to refer to the excess hospitalizations that are and will occur if we are left to our own decisions. As everybody knows this reduces the care of others in need.

So I’ll answer right now: Yes, Dr. Malone is wrong, and, although he clearly has a PhD and did do some interesting work getting mRNA into cells to express proteins decades ago, I do question his qualifications these days.

According to an August 12 2021 in The Atlantic by Tom Bartlett (“The Vaccine Scientist Spreading Vaccine Misinformation”), Malone did not finish his PhD, leaving grad school early for the lure of lucre which, playing the role of the victim, he claims he didn’t receive:

Malone says he deserves credit for more than just sparking hope. He dropped out of graduate school in 1988, just short of his Ph.D., and went to work at a pharmaceutical company called Vical. Now he claims that both the Salk Institute and Vical profited from his work and essentially prevented him from further pursuing his research.

Also, looking at Malone’s own web page (for his “consulting” company) in 2017 he was doing some sort of studies on repurposing of current medications for ZiKa virus, which would help explain his quick descent into the snake oil of HCQ and ivermectin for COVID-19.

Are you seriously saying Ivermectin and HCQ (the gun to get ZINC into your cell so virus can’t replicate) don’t work on covid today? With countries using it (see japan etc) massively seeing cases drop to nothing? Health minister of Japan now says give ivermectin to everyone now…LOL. Joe Rogan interview with Dr San jay Gupta (idiot, SP? you know the fool I’m talking about, who hasn’t seen Joe Rogan DESTROY this man and his TV channel!?) said it all about ivermectin. THEY LIED about ivermectin repeatedly, it is HUMAN MEDICINE. Both it and HCQ on WHO’s list of REQUIRED meds! Ivermectin got the nobel prize 2015 or so correct? So unbelievably effective, but you talk more fake news. 2B+ doses world wide correct to HUMANS? Same story as many drugs, antibiotics etc. Penicillin can be given to horses too, is it not made for humans then? Most (80%+?) of these drugs etc are used in animals (quantity wise), but they are for HUMANS too….ROFL. For a doc, you don’t seem to have much common sense, and full of fake news. But then you work on mrna stuff so you’re OWNED. 🙂 No shock about anything you say PRO pharma.

You don’t like the OLD drugs/therapeutics because they cost 6 cents instead of your 33B FAKE vaccines (yeah, not even a vaccine, so says CDC who had to change definition of vaccines…LOL) and boosters and that’s just for Pfizer. How much do they pay you people to lie? Is it a vaccine if NONE of the actual virus is in it? Is it a vaccine if it lasts months? Polio etc last how long? LIFE?

DR. Zelenko was blocked by Cuomo in NY from getting HCQ, so he found on their own sites (NIMH IIRC) a new GUN for zinc to enter the cell. Vitamin C+ Quercetin will work as the same GUN like device as HCQ, and zinc gets in and your done with replication of any influenza, flu, covid, whatever crap. DONE, GONE. Don’t collect your 33B+…Oh, now we know why you want them instead of 6 cents drug that works OFF patents 🙂

D3, C, Zinc, Quercetin…All you need to ignore covid. DR. Simone Gold talking about VAIDS now in Israel. YEP, vaccine aids you idiots. NYT just said covid boosters may cause immune system fatigue. YEP, VAIDS. Welcome to NO IMMUNE SYSTEM due to mRNA drugs called Vaccines by bought off people like YOU ORAC.

We have massive proof this stuff is NOT working, see FULLY vaxxed cruise ships worldwide. MASSIVE COVID SHIPS is what they should be called because NOBODY can stop it with immune system after shots!…ROFL. So easy to see. See 100% vaxxed places, they have the highest CASES. This isn’t difficult to understand so you are evil. Yeah, EVIL, as you KNOW and still act like Gupta idiot on Joe Rogan’s show. He fully admits on that show IVERMECTIN can be a very EFFECTIVE HUMAN medicine…LOL.

To anyone else reading: Everything posted above about ivermection is plain wrong. I’m sorry-but that’s the truth. Just ask the four patients we have on service right now who were taking it. They were all convinced it would work until it didn’t. And, yes-all were taking zinc and the rest of the shit, too.

So the 2 month trials of pfizer was released, so that data I will ignore, because Orac says its misinformation. if though 8 people in the 2 month trial caught covid after getting the shot, but yet we are to believe when we told after this trial, the vaccine will give you immunity from Covid and stop the spread. now we know that is not true obviously and the head of pfizer just recently promoting a new vaccine the 4th shot will be different this time because the first 2 shots did little or nothing that is his words. So we will ignore the harm caused to the parcipants in the trials, and ignore the 60 time more soccer players having heart issues, no other year in history.
2020 225,000 covid deaths without vaccine
2021 600,000 with vaccines that are safe with no side effect
also while was the definition of vaccine changed? immunity was removed, maybe so they won’t lose EUA.
facts matters, science matter, data matter people been preaching it and now don’t want they data to show.
now Fauci and Rochelle are trying to somehow say those deaths are for other reasons not covid 4 or more comorbidites, so are they saying covid is not the reason for death and we shouldnt fear it?

@Rob Trial did not claim that vaccines are 100% effective, no medical intervention is.
They said they were 95% efective.
Clinical trials do not assess asymptomatic spreading, follow up studies do.
Soccer players ? Name one.
There wer emany more COVID cases in 2021 than 2030

Ivermectin does work!!! I had Covid and my whole family. We took Ivermectin. ALL cured in 3 days. In my country that’s what they take. And it is a parasite medicine for humans also!!!

I have followed Dr. Malone he is not antivax.He is actually very provaccine. He is pointing out very serious side effects.

Suu-uure he is “not antivax.”?

That must be why he claims without evidence that COVID-19 vaccines kill children and cause brain damage, while buying into conspiracy theories about a “depopulation agenda.”

It is an interesting commentary on risk aversion playing out now. Those who believe the vaccines are untested have a perfectly logical argument – they simply haven’t been tested rigorously over a long enough timeframe.

There are many, many examples of sudden cardiac arrest following vaccination – even in elite athletes – as well as other complications. This, coupled with the proven low mortality rate of Covid regarding all but the elderly and those with serious medical conditions, provides ample support for those who wish not to be forced to comply.

Evidence abounds from the most heavily vaccinated populations on Earth that Covid continues to infect, almost regardless of vaccination status.

So while I agree many anti-vax “campaigners” are of dubious motivation, that has absolutely nothing at all to do with forcing millions of people, including those of child-bearing years (and now, even more grotesquely, young school-age children) to submit to a vaccine against their better judgement.

That is totalitarianism, not good health policy….

There are many, many examples of sudden cardiac arrest following vaccination – even in elite athletes – as well as other complications.

You obviously don’t understand the baseline rate fallacy and the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

More children have been shot in Chicago this year, than have died of covid19 nationwide

Your point?

Seriously, what is your point, other than the most disgusting form of whataboutism that I hear from antivaxxers?

@Michael,

When you state that ‘Those who believe the vaccines are untested have a perfectly logical argument – they simply haven’t been tested rigorously over a long enough timeframe’ – considering that we have data for +18 months, Billions of vaccinated people (of every age group etc.), how much more data do you feel we need?

Seriously, what is your point, other than the most disgusting form of whataboutism that I hear from antivaxxers?

Apparently that he can copy and paste a three-month-old headline from the New York Post.

Plain and simply, Malone DID take the covid vaccine. 2. Malone states first off that he believes in vaccines. 3. Can you absolutely prove scientifically beyond a shadow of doubt that covid vaccine does NOT and will not harm children? My GOD, put down the ego. open your mind. wake up. Why do so many want to blindly back Pharma 100%??? when there years and years of historical proof of lies and harm.

Orac, and your groupies…have you no self awareness, or do you simply not care, how incredibly snarky, dismissive, and insulting you are to people that have legitimate concerns about the vaccine–concerns solely caused by the incompetent messaging from FDA, CDC, and, frankly, blogs like this?

You Orac, as well as your groupies, suffer from the main line of defense used by the left to cancel any dialog –insult. This has nothing to do with your political views. It has to do with your intellectual incompetence at true dialogue–rather that respect the notion people have legitimate questions and confusion, and answer/discuss/refute respectfully, you automatically insult all who don’t agree with the label “antivaxer”.

No Orac, not agreeing with you, or having other opinions no more makes one an anti-vaxer than it makes you stupid for applying the label.

Your supporting refutations are middling at best. Links to Forbes,other MSM, and supra-national organizations is your supporting documentation? Are you and your groupies that oblivious to how little credibility MSM and supra-national organizations have, and therein is the root of the problem with disinformation? Why don’t you post links to real data–actual studies that prove your point? I wager doing so would present you with a far more formidable intellectual task to prove your ideas, which is why it appears to me your blog is more about stirring the pot and driving clicks than it is honest science information

The rich irony is that your (and your groupies) snarky, insulting, condescending tone do more to promote disinformation that folks like Malone, who is at least respectful in his language when it comes to people having different ideas.

Your collective tone is a total turn off, and so your blog is essentially the echo chamber of a blow hard fighting off bored trolls.

It sure as heck is useless as a voice of reason or intellectual honesty.

Funny, but I provided exactly what you asked for, a list of systems other than VAERS that monitor vaccine safety and are much more reliable. You can’t address that; so instead you start hurling insults and conspiracy theories. One notes that I linked directly to the sources, as well, not “orbes,other MSM, and supra-national organizations.” But whatever. As for links to studies, be careful what you ask for…

Also, as for being “dismissive” of “vaccine concerns,” I am most definitely not dismissive of concerns brought forward by the vaccine-hesitant. I do, however, dismiss conspiracy mongering nonsense from antivax ideologues who are not persuadable.

Your getting that jab money, your getting that transfer of wealth straight into your pocket. You won’t be on Rogan or any other meaningful podcast, your a team of of propagandists. Your getting paid to slang that fear, push the doubt, cancel heroes that are standing up for humanity. Your on the wrong side of history . Let’s see you debate Malone or Dr McCullough? Na you won’t do that coz you’d get schooled. Roll up your arm for the 20 boosters coming for you I bet you can’t wait. Get all 20 at once there so good for you.

I must have missed it when he come out in support for the use of a vaccine using another technology. Do you have a link?

Oh so you know when you’re talking about children, you better be sure you are right. Because I know there’s going to be a lot of parents out there with young kids that had no say in it that may not live or may be incredibly damaged. Why don’t you show us the numbers and the science and the data to back up how it’s safe for kids who should’ve never been touch with his jab. I have no idea where you get your information from but I know where I get mine from and facts, data, scientist are all are saying the same thing so this shot is not a vaccine, there’s no anti-VAXor’s because there’s no vaccine to refuse. So these kids that you’re talking about I hope you can live with yourself and the parents themselves because there’s no way in hell they would touch my kid or me!!

@ Wans

“I hope you can live with yourself.”

Well, I think that’s no the main issue I have here.

The main issue I have is: how can you be so brainwashed ?

‘If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.’
Let me see if I have this right. Xi Jing Ping and Vladimir Putin are Blockrock puppets?

I believe that in attempting to sidestep or avoid being called out as bigots, such people prefer the term “globalists.”

Ahhh, it’s all clear to me now.
Teh ‘vaccine holocaust’ is all on the shoulders of Jack the Ripper…
Thx, DB.

True but uninformed. It is a “controlling interest” because it is a larger stake than anybody else holds. You are thinking of “majority shareholder”.

@publicus_reanimated In shareholding meeting, shareholders vote. Majority of shares are needed to pass a resolution, Having more shares than anybody else does not mean much

Malone did not say Blackrock and Vanguard where controlling Pfizer–that is disinformation–a rather rich irony that Orac groupies would be promoting such on Orac’s site.

Malone said that INSTITUTIONS like Blackrock and Vanguard are the majority holders of Pfizer stock–as is proven in Aarano’s yahoo link–institutions own 64% of the stock. Malone’s point was institutions have but one motive: maximizing return for their shareholders. His point was, that is the main force at play when it comes to the guiding principles of big Pharma like Pfizer–satisfying shareholders through return on investment.

Any of you groupies care to explain how Malone’s observation is not correct? That majority shareholders are institutions that own Pfizer, and the only motive said institutions have is profit motive–they don’t care about bio-ethincs or anything else outside the context of profit motive. Care to refute? Be my guest.

That was Malone’s point. Not the disinformation the Orac groupies portray regarding the context of what he said

“Institutions” are not one skin, and while institutions with higher percentages of stocks can have more influence, that’s very far from “controlling”.

Here is Malone’s specific quote quoted by Orac. It’s not what you said. It’s exactly about those two institutions.

“If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.12 They’re at the top of a pyramid that controls basically everything, but you don’t hear about their terrifying monopoly because they also own the media.

Blackrock and Vanguard hold large interests in pivotal companies, and Vanguard holds a large share of Blackrock. In turn, Blackrock has been called the “fourth branch of government” by Bloomberg as they are the only private firm that has financial agreements to lend money to the central banking system.13”

The image of Dr. Robert Malone, “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” used at the beginning of Orac’s post shows a can of coconut water. Now, the Mayo Clinic has communicated, “Weighing the pros and cons, plain water is still the smart choice.”

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/coconut-water/faq-20207812

Clearly, here’s another example where Dr. Robert Malone, “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” doesn’t intelligently practice a healthy lifestyle.

I think there are two common threads in quackery that lead to anti-vax: germ theory denialism (in this case its “soft” form of “germs can only make you sick if you already have a chronic disease”) and the general conspiracism or what I think of as negative definition of truth, where “if it’s both made and promoted by mainstream entities for a specific stated purpose it just has to be wrong.” There is only one form of quackery that I know of (Chronic Lyme quackery) that does not deny or minimize germ theory, but instead overapplies it claiming that a specific family of germs is behind all kinds of non-specific chronic illness. The rest all seem to rest on a basis that something other than germs is the main cause of every disease, and of course, even the one exception is as staunchly conspiracist as the rest, claiming they have cures They ™ won’t tell you about.

The author of this Marxist drivel should be incarcerated for a minimum of 20 years, then spayed/neutered and deported to N. Korea.

A great response! This is the kind of assignment I give to my students to prove they’ve actually done the reading!

Oh. The irony. Let’s complain about Marxism then suggest a truly totalitarian course of action and a trip to a REAL Marxist country.

Posters here are too busy fighting over the scraps from the government funding trough of science to see the slow but steady corruption of science. You applaud when scientist are banned or de-platformed when they post things that you don’t agree with and you’re too myopic to see/understand that it will happen to you at some point. This was written by two people who could hardly be called anti vaxxers or anti science. The editor of the Lancet just testified that an article on covid was published not because of the science but because of the politics and that is just one small item that was used to silence the opposition.

“Corrupting STEM. The Silent Liberal Majority Must Fight Back”

quillette.com/2021/12/18/scientists-must-gain-the-courage-to-oppose-the-politicization-of-their-disciplines/

The “illiberal academic ideologues” that Krylov and Tanzman complain about are accused of silencing scientists over perceived missteps on equity and diversity-type issues. They’re not addressing “censorship” for holding unscientific views on subjects like vaccination, and fearmongering about world slavery and population reduction.

In any event, it’s ludicrous to claim that Robert Malone has been silenced or censored. One of his current enterprises is the Unity Project, of which he’s the “medical and regulatory director”. That group was formed to oppose the child vaccination mandate in California. Malone’s colleagues there include “canceled” luminaries like Pierry Kory, Peter McCullough and Harvey Risch, who’ve continued to have abundant opportunity to push Covid-19 misinformation, such as claims that drugs like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are wonderfully effective against the disease.

I think you’re confusing censorship with amply justified criticism and journals being more cautious about rushing bad research into publication.

Ivermectin does work. Big Pharma doesn’t want that. Theres no money in it for them. Government is in bed with Big Pharma. Vaccines will be proven to have long term side effects. Im vaxxed but think it was unnecessary. Definitely wrong for kids. Everything is about controlling someone or something else. We have become a horrible society. BTW check out how Japan has used IVM to effectively defeat Covid.

@ Kirby
And who makes Ivermectin?
Big Pharma!
So if it would work, they would acknowledge it, because there is money to be made. Or do you really think they wouldn’t be able to find a way to make a bigger profit from it, if it worked?
But no, Big Pharma rather spends lots of money to try to make some new medicines to fight Covid. And of course they made vaccines. And I prefer taking a vaccine, even with a booster, or even more boosters, over getting ill and putting my hope on some medicine.

The editor of the Lancet just testified that an article on covid was published not because of the science but because of the politics

This Torygraph item, Clunk? And you have the balls to complain about politicians? Dear L-rd.

I must say that I’m utterly dumbfounded by this, though.

I never revel in banning speech, especially science. The people we see de-platformed ARE NOT engaged in science. They are engaged in fear-mongering, look-at-me-look-at-me, daddy-didn’t-give-me-enough-attention, spewing forth of bs like a sprinkler.

Show me ONE experiment that didn’t involve “clever” manipulation of other people’s data any of these turds has run. Just one. That meets statistical rigor.

As I previously stated: I don’t even like banning this baloney. I think we should air it out for the world to see. Banning it only gives kooks another thing to cry about in public.

“You applaud when scientist are banned or de-platformed when they post things that you don’t agree with and you’re too myopic to see/understand that it will happen to you at some point.”

You seem to think that science is a fight–as in a boxing match–with two opponents duking it out as a way to determine who is “right”. Science isn’t a fight, its a method of inquiry.

brainmatterz- you havn’t got that right about science not being like a boxing match etc. Usually it is highly competitive with a race to get there first and in print. I think of the race to establish the structure of DNA. Also Salk and Sabin really did verbally slug it out over who has the most effective polio vaccine. The method of inquiry often results in highly antagonistic viewpoints expressed for all to see.

I understand the CDC has yet to acknowledge a single death from the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines”. Does Orac acknowledge the injuries, disabilities, and deaths caused by the adverse reactions to the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines”? The VAERS data has been collected and analyzed by Dr. Jessica Rose and others. Besides noting the serious adverse reactions among all age groups, she explains in interviews that the difficulty in filing a VAERS report has resulted in major undercounting of an unprecedented number of adverse reactions. Steve Hirsch figures the underreporting factor to be 41. The Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” related deaths reported by VAERS is 20,244 and Hirsch’s URF of 41 would take the estimated Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” deaths to 830,004. The total adverse reactions to the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines” reported by VAERS is 965,841…times 41 equals 39.6 million. Orac may quibble with the URF of 41, but is he or she willing to deny that there are serious injuries, disabilities, and deaths as a result of the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines”. How many compared to all the other vaccines combined in one year or the last 30 years? The breakthrough infections demonstrate Fauci was pushing his drugs under false pretenses. Effective therapeutic treatments were banned so kidney damaging Remdesivir could add to the death toll from Covid 19/SARS2 infection. Fauci and his groupies have been been shirking their responsibilities for facilitating the development of the CCP’s Wuhan lab Covid 19/SARS2 pandemic. Their policies of no medical treatments besides Remdesivir or the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines” amounts to quackery, bad medicine, and drug pushing that have caused an estimated 85% of the deaths from Covid 19/SARS2 infection. If Hirsch’s estimates concerning the injuries, disabilities, and deaths from the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” adverse reactions hold up, double the number of deaths that Fauci and his groupies, enablers, or facilitators are responsible for.
Dr. Malone and others are voices crying out in the wilderness of censorship and misinformation by detractors or worse. He and his fellow sirens are trying to save humanity from more democidal madness that Fauci and his supporters have inflicted upon innocent victims. We are seeing that the “vaccines” are ineffective as predicted and the anticipated Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) is starting to occur.
Orac, in my opinion, is only making things worse.

“Steve Hirsch figures the underreporting factor to be 41.”

I figure Cjones1 is a cross between a budgie and a llama.

The Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” related deaths reported by VAERS is 20,244 and Hirsch’s URF of 41 would take the estimated Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” deaths to 830,004.

I suppose there’s no more point asking where the bodies are than requesting citations for everything you just typed.

Let’s not be naive.

As demonstrated previously, many hundreds of thousands of bodies of vaccine victims have been transported in the dead of night to refrigerated warehouses like this one, in Teaneck, NJ, Lead SD and Victoria TX.

https://wsjbuild.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/DJI_0710-HDR-scaled.jpg

After the heat dies down, the bodies are weighted and covertly dumped off the U.S. coast to form artificial reefs.

Physicians get a $250 Amazon gift card for each case they sign off on as being due to other causes. It’s a sweet grift.

I find it most amusing that these innumerate conspiracy theorists somehow think that well over three quarters of a million deaths due to COVID-19 vaccines wouldn’t be noticed or could somehow be “covered up” by anyone or attributed to something else.

Don’t forget the families and friends. They have to be disposed of as well. Wouldn’t want any inconvenient missing person’s cases.

AND you’ll have to keep their cell phones active so that the phone companies don’t report a sudden decrease in usage.

“over three quarters of a million deaths due to COVID-19 vaccines wouldn’t be noticed”

That’s why there are nanochips in the vaccine. The “person” dies and the body remains animated by the artificial intelligence loaded onto the nanochip once it crosses the blood-brain barrier. Give it a few more years and the New World Order will have replaced the bulk of humanity with compliant robots.

It’s really very obvious when you think about it.

Malone and his ilk are sirens? This is appropriate since in Greek mythology sirens used their irresistible song to lure sailors to their deaths. These ‘experts’ should know better and have a lot to answer for, not that they ever will.

Did you notice that experts are answering all the time to your ilk, but you just do not listen.

The VAERS form has a separate section where you can report repetitive motion injuries sustained while repeatedly typing “scare quotes” around the word vaccines.

Oh no – I’ve been mass psychosed! Whatever will I do? Me, I’m gonna schedule my booster just to own the antivax crowd. Ha!

I’m not a liar but I often have to lie to get my point across. <- The poor disguise and essence of antivaxer IMHO.

Should be required reading for everyone! Thanks also for the deep dive on VAERS at this blogsite.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa/fact-check-vaers-data-does-not-suggest-covid-19-vaccines-killed-150000-people-as-analysis-claims-idUSL1N2R00KP

From the annals of Publish First, Regret Later:

An entire issue of an Elsevier journal devoted to Covid-19 issues has garnered an expression of concern from the editors. Included in this blanket EOC is an article by Ronald Kostoff et al claiming that Covid-19 vaccination is 5X more deadly than Covid-19 in a “best-case”, “very conservative” scenario.

http://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475002100216X

Kostoff authored a paper awhile back on his concerns about the biomedical literature, which he faults for ignoring, hiding or suppressing detrimental health effects of various products and interventions, including water fluoridation and of course vaccination (he blames autism on factors including the MMR vaccine, glyphosate (with a shout-out to Stephanie Seneff) and EMFs).

The kicker in that article is Kostoff (whose PhD is in aerospace and mechanical sciences*) noting that low quality papers can get published because of poor peer review. Seeing that Kostoff’s Covid-19 vaccine paper has been flagged post-publication after major criticisms came to light and now has a whole new set of reviewers, he may just have a point.

*Kostoff also boasts of being listed in “2000 Outstanding Intellectuals of the 21st Century”, 4th ed. (2006).

I found ANOTHER techbro mining VAERS to create fear, doubt and uncertainty about the COVID19 vaccines (to add to Steve Kirsch and Mathew Crawford (Jessica Rose’s co-author on the VAERS paper.

His name is Craig Paardekooper and his LinkedIn page reads “I am a software developer based in Chelsea London”.

This time exploiting the “hot lots” myth

The website he created is:

How Bad is My Batch
Are some batches more toxic than others?
Batch codes and associated deaths, disabilities and illnesses for Covid 19 Vaccines.

He vlaims Moderna batches ending in 20A and 21A are “50x more toxic than other batches.”

Oh great, Paardekooper a graphene oxide in vaccines fabulist too.

Graphene Oxide and Covid Vaccines

By Craig Paardekooper

The apparent magnetisation of the injection site has been noted and investigated by
scientists in Luxembourg –

https://www.efvv.eu/images/content/2021/0617/study-on-electromagnetism-ofvaccinated-persons-in-luxembourg_6edfa.pdf

This and similar observations caused Spanish scientists to become curious about that actual contents of the vaccinations, since they wanted to understand what was giving rise to the magnetic effects.

They obtained more than 100 vials of the vaccine and tested them

They found that 99% was Graphene Oxide (GO).

Source:

https://rense.com/general96/graphene-oxide-is-toxic-to-human-blood.pdf

Anti-vaccine doctor James Hill MD has a newsletter spreading disinformation about vaccine safety.

Researcher Craig Paardekooper (Kingston University, London) claims US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) data show vaccine batches are sequentially marked by varying toxicity.

Paardekooper claims:

VAERS shows about 1 in 200 vaccine batches (~ 0.5%) are “highly toxic,” having a high number (1000-5000 times the baseline rate) of severe adverse reactions — including hospitalization, disability, and death — in the short term, i.e., within a few days or weeks of injection.

70% have only one short-term adverse event reported.

80% have only one or two short-term adverse events reported.

The toxic batches are distributed among all 50 US states.

Ex-Pfizer VP and Chief Scientific Officer Michael Yeadon, PhD:

Dose range finding for lethal outcomes

Source:

https://hillmd.substack.com/p/vaccine-batches-vary-in-toxicity

Hill is on Twitter.

James Hill, MD @jhillmd
Doctor, lawyer. Applications of molecular biology and engineering in medicine.

https://twitter.com/jhillmd?lang=en

James Hill, MD @jhillmd

1/ We need criminal and civil penalties for any government official, corporate officer, or school board member who mandates current vaccines.

Here are a few reasons:

a) We have no long-term safety results on autoimmunity, cancer, genotoxicity, or male fertility.

Source:

https://twitter.com/jhillmd/status/1472638689415086084

“James Hill” is such a common name it is difficult to identify where he is licensed or practices (if he does).

This time exploiting the “hot lots” myth

Man, that’s just AoA-level bad. And, of course,

We know that if the multi-dose Thimerosal preserved flu vaccine is not perfectly shaken, the last doses can have far more than the 25 mcg dose of mercury stated on the label. The Moderna product requires a “gentle swirl.” No really, that’s the exact term used in the Moderna site. Perhaps James Bond could prepare the product consistently well….

(The Vesper was of course shaken.)

I’m going to give you the TRUTH in a nutshell. If it’s not posted, then this site is also a commie take over that will lose in the end. This is: The biggest Crime Against Humanity WoldWide in all history. C19 leak was a plandemic. Trump was in the way. The jab is NOT a vaccine, all those deaths, bodies piled up were wrongfully blanketed under COVID. They mattered, innocent people who were left untreated until they would gasp for breath, which enabled the evil implemented protocol for ventilators all for reimbursement while our loved ones died at the hands of: Dr. Fauci, Bill Gates, Big Pharma, CDC, AMA, WHO all of you and other players involved must pay for your crimes. At NO time did God assign ANY of you to take on this sick, satanic act of controlling the population to save the world. AKA The New World Order! Next: That is not a vaccine, it is NOT meant to protect anyone. It is meant to suppress your immune system, 85% placebo, 15% is deadly. It is meant to K.I.L.L. CENSORSHIP GAVE ALL OF IT AWAY! That’s the bottom line here and more of us are aware than not. Locked & loaded. We shall defend this country, beware, the sleeping giants including the military can turn at any moment to protect this land, we are a FREE America and those who mess with that freedom will wish they hadn’t. By the way, Bill Gates is a college dropout, he has NO medical degree. How strange he, Fauci, big pharma, and more all partners, what a CONFLICT! Just saying….in a nutshell. Not sharing my sources, I’ve finished my investigation. FACTS /Real Science never lies. Opinions are for those who are in denial.

I let your comment through because I thought it might amuse my regular readers with your intermittent ALL CAPS and utterly bonkers conspiracy nonsense.

“Not sharing my sources”

You don’t seem to realize how important these sources are! For example, I and my colleagues are conducting a clinical trial of laughter as a cure for COVID. It has long been hypothesized that laughter is the best medicine, but who has really put it to the test?

With everyone busy preparing for the holiday festivities, we’ve been running short of doses to give to our trial participants (all volunteers!). Every donation of laughter is welcome and needed. Thank you for your most recent submission and for your consideration to make further contributions to our potentially groundbreaking scientific quest.

What no mention of the CCP ?**

** probably used by scare mongers because it looks like “CCCP’

This one’s a doozy — if you look at his Tw*tter feed, he has a habit of posting the exact same thing three times in a row in the space of 20 minutes or so.

Another moron who thinks other people don’t have better aim (s).

You need more pills and couch time.

I believe you are threatening people with violent attack.

@ MedicGram

“I’m going to give you the TRUTH in a nutshell. If it’s not posted, then this site is also a commie take over…”

Hmm… no.

“This is: The biggest Crime Against Humanity WoldWide in all history. C19 leak was a plandemic. Trump was in the way.”

Oh boy…

“The jab is NOT a vaccine, all those deaths, bodies piled up were wrongfully blanketed under COVID.”

You know, when I plan coups and genocides, I do it the old fashioned way.

“They mattered, innocent people who were left untreated until they would gasp for breath, which enabled the evil implemented protocol for ventilators all for reimbursement while our loved ones died at the hands of: Dr. Fauci, Bill Gates, Big Pharma, CDC, AMA, WHO all of you and other players involved must pay for your crimes.”

Oh boy… I am a terrorist once more ? I’m kind of getting used to the accusation. It’s kind of starting to be a bore.

“At NO time did God assign ANY of you to take on this sick, satanic act of controlling the population to save the world.”

God who ? Did I meet the guy ?

“AKA The New World Order! Next: That is not a vaccine, it is NOT meant to protect anyone. It is meant to suppress your immune system, 85% placebo, 15% is deadly. It is meant to K.I.L.L. CENSORSHIP GAVE ALL OF IT AWAY!”

Oh, yeah. Right. It did. How stupid of me not to have noticed. Censorship. Right…

“That’s the bottom line here and more of us are aware than not. Locked & loaded. We shall defend this country”

Not mine. But I’m pretty sure more people are determined to defend it against you.

“…beware, the sleeping giants including the military can turn at any moment to protect this land, we are a FREE America…”

So you’re telling me the army is supporting and planning a coup ?

“…and those who mess with that freedom will wish they hadn’t. By the way, Bill Gates is a college dropout, he has NO medical degree.”

As if that mattered in the least.

“How strange he, Fauci, big pharma, and more all partners, what a CONFLICT! Just saying….in a nutshell. Not sharing my sources, I’ve finished my investigation. FACTS /Real Science never lies. Opinions are for those who are in denial.”

I do not have “opinions”. I have certainties: you’re out of your mind.

@ Orac

This blog is priceless.

It’s always good to stick to what is measurable. One thing that is always measurable is the flow of money.
I believe that the typical billionaire is now roughly 30% more wealthy than they were pre-pandemic. What a happy accident, eh? But we mustn’t suggest any potential wrong-doing here. Very unsporting to do so.

Concerning conspiracy theories: Wealthy powerful people would NEVER get together behind closed doors to plan how best to use their power, wealth and influence to gain yet more of the same. That simply would not be cricket, old chap.

It would be a display of extremely poor sportsmanship and would generally be frowned upon by everyone except bounders and cads.

The fabulously wealthy are generally thoroughly decent chaps.

We can all scoff at the tin-foil hat wearers – but something does not add up – and vast numbers of people are noticing.

Explain this – without trying to gaslight me:

I have supposedly just lived through a “deadly pandemic” – I have even personally contracted an infection of the pathogen in question.

But in the previous 2 years I have not been asked to attend a single funeral.
None of my friends that I know of have been to any funerals. My mother, who is in her mid 70s, has not been to any funerals among her cohort of friends.
I would say I am acquainted with roughly 200 people in the organization I work in. I do not know of reports of anyone who has been seriously ill, let alone died, in the previous 2 years.

So we have a deadly pandemic – where no-one dies, or is even seriously ill.

So maybe … just maybe … it’s not actually a deadly pandemic?

So if it isn’t … why is it being treated like it is? Who is pushing the narrative and why?

I can only come to the conclusion that there are other reasons this narrative is being pushed – that are not related to public health.

I have come to the conclusion it is about
1) A global digital ID system – booted up via vaccine passports
2) And retail banking system that will hook into the ID initiated in (1) that will use Central-bank backed digital currency (CBDC).

That’s what the whole thing is about.

(I had a friend in his 30s that died of flu, about 7 years ago – so I am well aware that flu viruses can be dangerous)

@Cthulu:

“I have supposedly just lived through a “deadly pandemic” – I have even personally contracted an infection of the pathogen in question.

But in the previous 2 years I have not been asked to attend a single funeral…So we have a deadly pandemic – where no-one dies, or is even seriously ill.”

Survivorship Bias. Just because YOU aren’t acquainted with anyone who died doesn’t mean nobody has died.
Or do you think that the reports of crematoria not being able to keep up with the number of bodies were false?

@ Cthulhu

“I can only come to the conclusion that there are other reasons this narrative is being pushed – that are not related to public health. I have come to the conclusion it is about 1) A global digital ID system – booted up via vaccine passports”

Cut the crap. People have been dying. The funeral pyres in India were lighting up the night.

Your global digital ID system… oh boy.

Our governments do not need a pandemic to be control freaks.

Centralised France never did care about privacy to the extent that it should.

So before going on a WEF conspiracy nonsense, I’ve got people to educate in France about the importance of privacy. I showed them once how to use traceroute. They believed I was some kind of criminal for that.

People are that dumb.

You do not need a WEF conspiracy to push digital ID in a country.

And, no, in the end, this is a byproduct of technology.

It’s not a conspiracy.

When Napoleon invaded Switzerland, he started putting number on the houses in Geneva to give them addresses with numbers. People went out at time to remove the numbers.

Everything old is new.

Just the technology is changing.

But, no. It’s not a conspiracy.

@ Chtulhu

“I believe that the typical billionaire is now roughly 30% more wealthy than they were pre-pandemic. What a happy accident, eh? But we mustn’t suggest any potential wrong-doing here.”

Sorry. You cannot control the consequences of a pandemic.

Billionaires have no interest in engineering that kind of nonsense. No matter what their wealth are, they profit from political and economic stability.

A pandemic does not provide that.

Weapons dealer profit from instability.

Billionaires think otherwise.

“Concerning conspiracy theories: Wealthy powerful people would NEVER get together behind closed doors to plan how best to use their power, wealth and influence to gain yet more of the same. That simply would not be cricket, old chap.”

They always do. It’s their right.

The thing is, whatever they do, they should get democratic approval. That brings more transparency to the issue and levels the playing field.

It’s up to society to ensure that government plays its role in ensuring that.

And, yes, they’re not doing a good job about that.

But voters simply do not care about transparency.

Bottom line: no other way round than to convince people that transparency and accountability is important.

Which is why I like Switzerland: they get it. Which is why I do not like France: they positively do not get it. In fact, they want precisely the opposite of transparency and accountability. Because they’ve got this State fetish.

But, no. No conspiracy. Just the way the world is. As it could be worse (CCCP, CCP, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Central African ahem… Republic) I do complain, but only to some extent. Not like you do, throwing the baby with the bathwater.

@Cthulhu Not everybody dies because of COVID. You must know quite many people before that happens,
Have you seen any plans of global digital ID ? Any there are not stored in a central database. This is a very basic precaution,
Digital banking has been around very long time,it is a form of self service. Reason is as always, cost reduction.

@Arno @F68 @Julian Frost

Thousands die from the flu every year. A friend of mine died from the flu about 7 years ago. Apparently there was a flu pandemic in 2006. Does anyone remember this, particularly? No – most people were oblivious.

The fact a number of people have died does not make it a “deadly pandemic” and justify all the ludicrous measures we have seen.

24/7 rolling virus fear porn
lockdowns
small / medium business closures
destruction of the service sector of the economy
job losses
huge increase in gov debt
“emergency powers” awarded to politicians by themselves, for themselves, allowing overriding of civil liberties hard-fought for, over 100s of years.
state coercion over vaccination and face coverings, and hyper-polarization of pro/anti-vax camps (divide & conquer psy-ops)
old folks left to die alone
old folks guilt tripped into “do not resuscitate orders” because they don’t want to be a burden on the health system
No hospital appointments – so serious diseases left un-diagnosed / untreated
No dental appointments
The education of children seriously and irreparably interrupted due to lockdowns
despair, mental health damage and suicides.

The UK government website promulgates that it does not consider COVID-19 a “high consequence infectious disease”

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19

Anyone who opposes any or all of these measures can be conveniently classified as a “covid denier” or possibly even an anti-vaxxer. And therefore can have their opinions censored from the BBC, our state broadcaster, thanks to the “public health” policies they have in place.
In other words – no-one with any coherent opinions contrary to the official narrative will be allowed to air them on the BBC.

So please – do not try to take some “moral high ground” with me as you are gas-lighting me into rejecting the evidence of my own eyes and experience.

There IS a reason for all the things I have just itemized above – and I’m pretty damned sure it is NOT for the good of our health.

So – there be another reason for it. Get scratching your heads.
What could it be?

@Cthulu:

Apparently there was a flu pandemic in 2006. Does anyone remember this, particularly? No

I remember SARS quite well, thank you very much.

The fact a number of people have died does not make it a “deadly pandemic”

The COVID death toll is already in the millions. And attacking me for pointing out that just because YOU didn’t know anyone who died doesn’t mean there ISN’T a pandemic is handwaving.

You can argue that the measures taken were ineffective or too intrusive, but denying that we are in a pandemic and suggesting some nefarious intent behind the restrictions is ludicrous.

@ Cthulhu

“Thousands die from the flu every year. A friend of mine died from the flu about 7 years ago. Apparently there was a flu pandemic in 2006. Does anyone remember this, particularly? No – most people were oblivious.”

Yeah. And, honestly, I do not care much about pandemics.

That doesn’t change that, yes, we took a hit. The news went wild some time ago about the pandemic of coffins we witnessed in Italy. About funeral pyres going berserk in India. And the covid deniers in my country never did deny that institutions for the elderly did took a hit: they were too glad to be able to bash the government to be deniers on that one.

You, on the other hand…

I mean, come on. Push your anti-restriction agenda if you want, but at least do not deny basic facts in order to push your agenda. The motivated reasoning is here glaringly way too obvious.

Own up to your name. Here were some of the slogans for Cthulhu’s last presidential campaigns:

“Cthulhu for President: Why settle for the lesser evil?”
“Equality through Insanity”
“Keep climate changing”
“Legalize human sacrifice”
“No lives matter”

Man up, Cthulhu… don’t be a sissy and play on denial of the death toll to pretend you’re a nice guy…

@ Chtulhu
You made a statement of opinion as fact ‘So we have a deadly pandemic – where no-one dies, or is even seriously ill’. I’m glad that you don’d know anyone who died.

It’s interesting that you think that your personal experience is proof of anything. Do you only ‘believe’ in things that you’ve seen with your own eyes?

@Cthulhu Have you considered why health care services are so strained ? Lots of unvaccinated people need care.

@David
“Do you only ‘believe’ in things that you’ve seen with your own eyes?”

No – you have inverted the regex: “Matching what you do want” is not the same as “not matching what you don’t want”

I see no reason to believe things on trust that I can neither quantify or verify myself – where the information in question is disseminated by authorities known to have previously (willfully) misinformed me.

In other words: Why take information on trust – from an entity you have good reason NOT to trust?

@F68
“to pretend you’re a nice guy”

I apologize to anyone who was left under that misapprehension.

Although I hope the irony of being told to “man up” by boomer high command isn’t lost on anyone.

Apparently there was a flu pandemic in 2006. Does anyone remember this, particularly?

You mean the one in 2009? Yah, if you look at the components in the flu vaccine, it will remind you; that’s still the H1N1 part.

@ Chtulhu

Who do you trust? Besides ‘things on trust that I can neither quantify or verify myself’?

@David

Who do you trust?

That’s a good question…

I don’t trust big pharma; but I don’t trust naturo-paths.
I don’t trust the politicians; but I don’t trust anarchists.
I don’t trust communists; but I don’t trust Nazis.
I don’t trust transgenderists; but I don’t trust radical feminists.
I don’t trust atheists; but I don’t trust the religious.
I don’t trust industrialists; but I don’t trust the environmentalists.
I don’t trust anyone that says “You must trust me implicitly”

I do trust my dog, and to slightly lesser extent my wife, but unfortunately they’re both idiots.

I might trust Linus Torvalds – maybe about 85%

Does this help?

@ Cthulhu

“I don’t trust anyone that says “You must trust me implicitly””

Fine. Fine. Fine.

That doesn’t change the fact that if public policy is to be implemented, we have to rely on an institution called Science.

You don’t trust Science. Fine.

Can you at least defend the existence of such an institution so that we may allow ourselves to converge on pragmatic knowledge ? So that we may make collective choices ?

Could you, moreover, require that Science always stand on the side of logic, evidence and reason, even if you do not fully understand what it means ?

If you concede these two points, I have no problem with you even doubting the existence of yourself.

The only thing we expect of you is that you do not hold public policy hostage to your unreasonable pseudo-unbelieving stance. We’re not hostage to you. We have a need to converge on Truth to make decisions. I you want to stay out of it, fine.

But if you interfere, we are going to expect you to do so with logic, evidence and reason.

Thank you.

DISCLAIMER: This was a message sponsored and financed by the Unholy Alliance of Big Pharma, politicians, atheists, industrialists and scientists. The ones that do not require you to trust them implicitly, but who would be quite happy if you let them generously give their contribution to the upbuilding of our common civilisation. The one you live in, and that generously allows you, since theocrats have been broadly curtailed and contained in the West, not to believe in any form of authority.

@F68
Academia has been slowly infiltrated over the past 25 years or so, with an ideology known as “postmodernism” – whereby there are no absolutes, everything is “in context” and a relative concept. This includes language – therefore words can have different meanings and definitions to different people and in different contexts.
So – it’s practically impossible to have any sort of rational debate with a postmodernist because the very tool you would use to debate with them (language) can supposedly be interpreted in a myriad of ways.

Two French physicists (Sokal & Bricmont) pulled off a hoax against these academic postmodernists – getting a paper published in a supposedly scholarly journal – which was later revealed to be absolute drivel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense

Does this mean the postmodernists were vanquished and their edifice of fashionable nonsense crumbled and disappeared forever?
No… These jokers are still running the academic show.

How can science exist in such an academic environment?

As far as I can tell – in order for scientists not to be “cancelled” for revealing truth incompatible with the ideologies of the postmodernists – they must participate in sophisticated double-think, whereby when a perceived threat to any fashionable nonsense emerges it has its signal quickly attenuated.

Exhibit A:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/irreversible-damage-the-transgender-craze-seducing-our-daughters/

So:
You want evidence – you get “evidence”.
You want truth – you get “truth”.
You want reason – you get “reason”
You want logic – you get “logic”.

There’s your “science”.

@Cthulhu Postmodernism was fad in philosophy departments. It did not infiltrate anything else.

I can only conclude that these people are crunching the raw, numeric data without actually reading the reported details. It’s full of reports such as “coughing up blood, significant hemoptysis — > cardiac arrest. started day after vaccine but likely related to ongoing progression of lung cancer”

As I expected. Your response is simply trite and diversionary. Sudden cardiac deaths by significant numbers of elite athletes within a short time frame who have all recently received similar, virtually untested vaccines simply begs to be addressed. You also ignored my truthful representation of Covid’s relatively modest effects on the overwhelming majority of the population who have no serious health impairments and/or are not aged. I believe you have confused the terms insolence and ignorance…..

“Sudden cardiac deaths by significant numbers of elite athletes”

I guess the diplomatic conundrum of whether to participate in Beijing is solved. No country has a team to send.

Elite athletes are pretty well-known.

If a significant number of them have died of cardiac arrest, we would know who they are.

So, can you name ten active members of major league sports teams who died in the past year?

And major league here just meaning, like, MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, whatever. And active just meaning … played in games, not retired, not coaches (who are older and not in so great of shape), etc.

Like, any cause of death, even? Let alone “cardiac”.

Alties, like Mike Adams in the US, talk about the European footballers who died suddenly after being vaccinated. HOWEVER he never mentions players’ names, team names or cities they play for- usually he says “German” players.. My SO watches sports channels which cover international events and THEY never bring up these devastating losses; I’ve had him keep an eye on the situation. I also watch/ read European and Japanese news – no reports on deaths there either. But then, Adams claims huge numbers of vaccine deaths in general.

-btw- I love your cat imagery. I have one that looks quite the same.

Yeah. I figure that maybe, just maybe, our interlocutor here will actually try to dig up names to prove me wrong, and then reflect on why they’re having trouble.

Also: yes, void cats are lovely. I’ve had this little wonderful ball of fuzz for a decade now and he’s still a friendly loveable little hole in space.

Your response is simply trite and diversionary.

Are you sure you know what “trite” means? “Diversionaly” seems to be out the window.

You offer nothing of substance and just stomp your feet when you actually receive something in response. It’s about as useful as a “loudness” switch on an old integrated amp, for lack of a barnyard analogy.

^Right, right.

Sudden cardiac deaths by significant numbers of elite athletes

Show the hypothesis testing.

So yeah, f#£k the old and infirm and vulnerable. If we take them out of any equation because they’re obviously not important, then you can mostly say that hardly anyone gets seriously hurt by Covid.

Do you have a medical degree, have ANY experience working with vaccines or their creations, or any experience whatsoever in any for of epidemiology?

(And no, staying at a holiday inn express last night while fawning over cnn doesn’t count.)

Oh, please. I’m an MD/PhD scientist who runs a lab. I’ve also published in epidemiology.

Now tell me your qualifications.

Yeah, and fyi, that lab is funded by the US governement. I quote: “Over the last 20 years, his research has been funded by the NIH, the Department of Defense”.
Meanwhile Big Pharma most likely supports his BS as well. Isn’t that so, David?

And considering his relentless attempts to publish as much anti antivaxx propaganda as possible, it’s my guess that he gets paid for the amount of characters. Apparently a lot of bleating little wool means cash.

Yeah, and fyi, that lab is funded by the US governement [sic/i> ]. I quote: “Over the last 20 years, his research has been funded by the NIH, the Department of Defense”.

Seems better than having Newports and Natty Ice as support.

@Lucss Interesting thing is that Robert Kennedy Jr would not tell who funds him. My guess is, trial lawyers in for lawsuits

What did Mr Kennedy answer, when he was asked ‘Do you have a medical degree, have ANY experience working with vaccines or their creations, or any experience whatsoever in any for of epidemiology?’?

Lucas, it doesn’t seem like you understand how grant funding works. A granting organization gives a lab a set amount of money to complete a very specific study/set of studies. The granting organization does not get to choose the outcome of the study. When the period of the grant (1 year, 3 years or 5 years are usual) is over, the grantee may apply for an extension of the grant, which may or may not be granted. If the extension is not granted that’s the end of the relationship between the lab and the granting organization.

A granting organization doesn’t own a researcher, not during the period of the grant, and certainly not in perpetuity. So I really don’t understand why you think that organizations that gave grants in the past (“has been funded”) would have any say over a researcher’s hobbies?

As for your insinuations about “Big Pharma”; you can look that up. Payments to healthcare providers from Pharma companies must (by law) be reported and those reports made public. It’s called the Sunshine act.

Now to turn that question around, Lucas, are you being paid to post here? Or are you doing it of your own volition? Why do you assume everyone here is a Pharma Shill?

It’s sad, so sad to see someone fail the internet to such a degree. After you get your eyeglasses prescription checked and updated, I suggest you look around this site’s home page and follow a few links. Also, see either a gunsmith or mental health professional, possibly both, about your hair trigger and firing from the hip without opening your eyes.

“I invented mRNA technology 30 years ago”

“mRNA tech hasn’t been studied for long enough”

Can’t make this stuff up.

I keep trying to understand what Malone’s general ‘take-home message’ is, when he claims that he is the inventor. Is he saying that he’s sorry for inventing a ‘monster’? That he takes blame?
Or rather that he would have done it better?

Maybe he tries to convey that he is more of a specialist on the subject then you are?

Many are concerned about the rapid growth of misinformation about Covid ( see Dr DG twitter, Joe Biden) whilst others are not or work hard to get it to go viral…
Crap I’ve seen today:
— Dr Malone will appear on the Progressive Commentary Hour tonight 7pm US EST ( PRN.live; Gary Null.com) I’m not sure if it’s an interview with the decrepit host or a tape but either way, just as bad if Malone agreed to being interviewed or heard on such a heap of trash outlet.
— Children’s Health Defense features Jessica Rose on how vaccines destroy innate immunity; also how damaging mainstream media is; Steve Kitsch boils down RFK jr’s book to 5 minutes including “..Fauci is the leader of the largest cartel of organized crime to ever walk the face of the earth..”
–Natural News: because they are vaccinated, Democrats will be dying more in coming months thus tipping the balance of power to Republicans; turncoat Trump pushes boosters.

When was the first time NN said that vaccinated people would be dying in droves in the following months? Only it’s been a while, so you’d think it would have started by now.

Hey, has anyone done any covid deaths by political affiliation graphs?

@ NumberWang:

There are different ways to measure anti-vax beliefs based on political party but here are two:
–James Allen in Hospital Medical Director: Relationship Between Political Party and Death from Covid 19 Dec 2021. links to red/ blue line graph
Covid vaccination- political party affiliation matters more than race and ethnicity
Oct 2021 Brookings

There were a state maps on television and statements about higher rates of illness/ death in red states, I can’t find a synopsis now.
Becker’s Hospital Review puts out daily on line positivity reports by state.
Also Mayo Clinic US Covid Tracking the Trends maps illness, vaccination etc.

Aside from the messed-up markup, what part did you not understand? You stomp in, call the commentariat sheep, make an ass of yourself addressing our (tinu) gracious host, and now you’re confused?

@Narad
If you post one short reply, what else then that one short reply would I ask you to explain? Needless to ask me. But here we go again: “Seems better than having Newports and Natty Ice as support.” Please explain.

And have the decency not to call someone an “ass”. That is an insult. Certainly I earn more respect; who do you think you are?
Better you value people who bring you people to your senses, instead of this low-grade behavior.

@Narad
Oh, and while you’re here, please tell us who pays you for your hard work here.
And before you start insulting me again, this also is in no way ment to provoke. It just goes without saying that we need to be able to make our own consideration whether or not your outbursts here are questionable beforehand, in case you are a Big Pharma / US government stooge.
Please inform us on your background as well.

Oh, and while you’re here, please tell us who pays you for your hard work here.

Ah, yes, the dumbest possible thing you could say. Perfect. Why would anybody pay to have you insulted? Some dime-a-dozen Malone toady? Get off your high horse.

And before you start insulting me again, this also is in no way ment to provoke.

With the extra touch of a shit-eating grin. Now, where was I, oh yes, the remark that you couldn’t figure out after your previous run-through of petulantly puking up the Pharma Shill Gambit:

Seems better than having Newports and Natty Ice as support.

That’s calling you Trailer Trash. Now tell me your qualifications.

Pitiful.

@Narad
Your expression “Pharma Shill Gambit” is the exact same expression your boss David Gorski uses so often.
And your collegue Dorit parrots the expression in about every reply she gives.
That’s why I requested Dorit – and now you too – to try and be a bit more creative and use her own words.
Obviously you guys all work for David. Please say it ain’t so.

Well that’s a new version of the shill gambit, that commenters who agree with me must all be working for me. Would that it were true! Sadly, however, my pharma lucre is missing in action and I cannot afford such largesse for my minions, who, alas, will have to agree with me because they actually agree with me.

I bet Orac will be very willing to double what he pays each of us.

#jokesthatareeasytomisuse

@RS
No, I’m not demanding anything. You just need to show some manners; if really you think one has to “earn this”, does that not make you a low-life?

It makes me a short alphabetic sequence. And you should learn to write a person’s nym correctly if you expect to receive respect in return.

Besides which, I have never treated you with disrespect, at least not with your current sock, even though you are earning it here as elsewhere.

@rs
As soon as I start asking legitimate questions that apparently none of you weasels like, I’m getting intimidated and insulted. So there apparently is something you are trying to hide. Is this perhaps Big Pharma lobby through you as a mediator?

So again – and why would the question itself be a form of disrespect like you keep repeating – are you being payed for your work here or is this hobby?
GIVE US THE TRUTH!

Please be aware that people watch your replies. You could at least try to earn their trust.

“You weasels, low-lifes, tell me, are you Pharma shills? Are you paid, because I don’t like the fact that you support vaccines,” says the anti-vaccine activists. And “you’re insulting me just because I asked a legitimate question (apparently, accusing everyone of being shills)! How dare you.”

I hope you’re smarter than this and actually do see the problem with your behavior and are just trolling. The alternative seems even worse.

@Lucas:

As soon as I start asking legitimate questions…

You are NOT “asking legitimate questions”. You are making accusations in the form of questions. And when you were called out, you resorted to the defence of JAQing off. Nobody here is fooled.

Lucas:

You barge in here and accuse everyone of being paid off by Big Pharma, and then you’ve got the nerve to demand we show you some manners.

Well, here’s some manners: Please fuck off.

@TBruce
“fuck off”… oh please big boy (or girl), do stop your scolding.
It is so unprofessional and it is getting boring.

It is so unprofessional

You’re asserting a profession now? Is that to divert from the payments you’re getting from Malone?

You said ‘respect’. Respect and politeness aren’t the same thing. You certainly have to earn respect. You could expect politeness but you, yourself, didn’t exactly charge in with a polite or respectful tone so it would be a bit unrealistic.

@NumberWang
What do you think is wrong with finding out who pays these people here? This in order that the readers here can decide for themselves what their opinions are worth.

Especially Big Pharma is lobbying through every ‘outlet’ possible, including the media, phycisians etc. It is so obviously rigged.

And meanwhile they keep injecting little children. So sickening.

Deference can be commanded (but Lucas has no position from which to command it from us).
Respect must be earned.

Politeness is a starting point, but may be discarded after incivility on the other party’s part. (As Lucas has already done.)

@NumberWang
I’m asking for the sort of respect not to get insulted here by a bunch of people that anxiously hide who they are with what motive.

Mind you, these people are trying to ‘sell’ mothers of young children experimental gene therapy injections. That can go deriously wrong, without a doubt.

Is it wrong to try and protect the very young that cannot protect themselves from money hungry wolves? What is your opinion?

@Lucas You are claiming that blog commenters are paid by Big Pharma. This is really ridiculous

@Lucas It is not experimental gene therapy. Gene therapy fix a lethal gene, vaccines elicit immunity. Gene therapy requires permanent alteration, mRNA in vaccines disappears aftet a day. Did you note the difference ?
FDA, of course, speak about vaccines, too

My opinion is that your first post was already impolite so you can’t really expect politeness in return. Or to put it in juvenile terms, you started it. No point sulking about it now.

As for finding out who pays the various commenters on this blog. How are you going to do that? You won’t believe anyone who says that they aren’t being paid by Orac or big Pharma. The only way you could possibly establish if there were any payments would be with examining the declared income of those commenters using their real names based on tax returns or similar. However, I don’t think you’d believe that either.

Since it is obviously impossible for you to be convinced. The logical conclusion is that you are deliberately asking in ill faith, which is another form of rudeness and disrespect.

As for ‘selling’. The vaccines are free in the UK. Wahey! Are you guys paying over there?

@JustaTech

“but Lucas has no position from which to command it from us”. Question: who is “us”?

Are you such a payed weasel too as well? It’s a conglomerate?
You people are sick, completely disgusting!
I would avoid any mirror if I were you.

@ Lucas

“Are you such a payed weasel too as well? It’s a conglomerate?”

Not paid. Broken and broke. Spending time on the net. That’s all.

Though I must thank Big Pharma and Roche in particular for having nice offices in Zug canton in Switzerland, the tax haven I confess loving, where my heart lies and where taxes are so low thanks to corporations like Roche.

In a sense, yeah, I was “paid” by Big Pharma because they were part of the ecosystem of that canton, helping lower the tax rate to ridiculously low amounts.

Corporate tax rates of 11.85 % indeed is the lowest tax rate in Switzerland.

So yeah, I’m definitely an Pharma Shill because of that.

We’ll see in 2022 how anti-vax or pro-vax Zug is. When they’ll vote.

They tend to always vote “No”, there. So, I guess, these people will end up being anti-vaxx Pharma Shills.

Once again, this is too over the top to not be an act. If not…well….time to quote Joel again: “You are SICK, SICK, SICK!”

Once again, this is too over the top to not be an act.

The insouciant use of our host’s Christian name is a screaming tell, but he’s too repetitively schoolmarmish to be “credited” for anything. And the axiom of choice isn’t needed to find the rest of the socks, just giving a shit. I don’t, particularly.

@ Narad

“And the axiom of choice isn’t needed to find the rest of the socks, just giving a shit.”

I didn’t know the axiom of choice could be used that way…

This New Knowledge always stuns me.

@Julian Frost
“You are making accusations in the form of questions.” No Julian, a question is never an accusation.
If a question is felt as an accusation, it means that the true answer to that question unmasks an unfresh truth.
Think about it.

@ Lucas (@ rs)

“A question is never an accusation.”

OK. Here goes:

Did you stop raping babies ?

Answer “Yes” or “No”.

@rs
Thanks for the opprtunity you give me to clear your issue! I will answer you.
I never started torturing small animals.
Is it perhaps now time to answer my question?

Well, Lucas, let me give you my observations.

I checked the last 4 blog posts here and this is the only one you have commented on. You first commented yesterday as a follow up to a question implying that the author wasn’t qualified to discuss issues of vaccine safety or effectiveness unless he was actively working on developing vaccines or studying epidemiology. That person gave no information about his own credentials.

You replied by implying that the author was being paid either by the Federal government or a pharmaceutical company to write this blog, implying that he didn’t genuinely believe the arguments he spent a lot of time writing out.

When we spotted this lame argument, a form of the ad hominem fallacy, you complained that we had given it a name (as if that somehow made it more valid).

Then you devolved into repeating the same argument, calling names, and whining about not getting respect.

Most of the commenters here have been engaged in an ongoing discussion on this and other blogs for years and have earned respect by showing a general understanding of science and medicine, logic and reason, and by usually making comments that are informative.

You have not earned that respect.

Nor have you said anything of substance about Malone’s arguments against vaccines.

And starting out your “contribution” by implying that the blog does not merit a serious response is not a good way to earn respect.

TTFN

@ squirrelelite
Thank you for sharing your observations.

Of course I cannot comment on non-answers to my questions or to insults. If, in your opinion, I haven’t answered whatever substantive question, please repeat it for me and I’ll give you the answer. I’ve got nothing to hide, have no any commercial interests here – the only interest that I have is completely in your benefit. So shoot.

About the author, he informed me on his background. Basically he’s a surgeon and a cell physiologist; this means he’s not qualified on virology, epidemiology, immunology or vaccinology. Period.
Nevertheless, that is exactly what these discussions here are about; they are centered around vaccines and vaxxing the population.
Now you tell me, why is this surgeon mingling with others on these subjects? Why doesn’t he just hire some specialists and let them give whatever advice on these matters here?

My credentials? Like I informed Mr. Gorski and others before: (Business) Economics, Marketing, Industrial Design. I have a specialization in Statistics.
I might tell you about my interests and hobbies, but that would have as much meaning as when Mr. Gorski informs us on his: irrelevant.
Very relevant is that I am quite well informed about what is going on at the WEF. In the end this isn’t really about a pandemic or vaccination an sich, it’s just a means. Follow the power, follow the money and you get to pawns like our good docter.

“You replied by implying that the author was being paid either by the Federal government or a pharmaceutical company to write this blog, implying that he didn’t genuinely believe the arguments he spent a lot of time writing out.” I commented on this one already so frequently, Squirrelelite. Please read back. I will repeat that “whose bread one eats his word one speaks”. Why would anyone invest so much time and effort to undermine the position of so many more then qualified and experienced phycisians and this in such dubious ways, when he would not have a financial interest in that? Makes no sense. Would our good docter perhaps be a philanthropist, a humanitarian, an advocate of civil rights? Such naivety.

And no, Squirrelelite, I’m not whining about not getting respect, those are your words. But since some of you don’t even know how to spell that word and bluntly insult others that ask questions they may not like, I give into consideration to at least show some form of decency.

“Nor have you said anything of substance about Malone’s arguments against vaccines.”
Look Squirrelelite, I am not a specialist here. So I’m not really gonna fight over these matters and neither should anyone here; no one here has the qualifications.

But if you insist, I may have a question for you. Have a look at: Study of mRNA Vaccine Formulation Against COVID-19 in Healthy Adults 18 Years of Age and Older – Full Text View – ClinicalTrials.gov
We are in the phase 3 clinical trial, aren’t we? A phase 4 clinical trial begins after a drug has been approved for use in the general population to rigorously test its efficacy and safety. Now, how can anyone yet conclude these vaccines are so safe? Mr. Mallone states that it is criminal to vaccinate our babies and young children. Tell me Squirrelelite, do you agree with him?

@Lucas So you have no expertise on vaccines either. You have not done any statistical analysis, either.
As for your common sense, Big Pharma does not pay blog commenters. Secondly someone may disagree with withour being a pharma shill.

@Lucas,

Since you replied to me, I’ll give you an answer. I still haven’t seen anything from you about the specific claims Malone made in his tweet and whether they are true or false.

As for respect, I noted these statements of yours.

And have the decency not to call someone an “ass”. That is an insult. Certainly I earn more respect; who do you think you are?
Better you value people who bring you people to your senses, instead of this low-grade behavior.

So again – and why would the question itself be a form of disrespect like you keep repeating – are you being payed for your work here or is this hobby?

I’m asking for the sort of respect not to get insulted here by a bunch of people that anxiously hide who they are with what motive.
Mind you, these people are trying to ‘sell’ mothers of young children experimental gene therapy injections. That can go deriously wrong, without a

I don’t see any reason for people to reply to your repeated questions about who is paying them since that is irrelevant to the truth value of Malone’s tweet statements and Orac’s reply to them.

FWIW, I am retired and have never received a government grant or worked for a pharmaceutical company unless you consider doing product resets in the pharmacy area of a Target store to count.

As a practicing physician and a medical researcher, the author of this blog has far more experience and training as a basis to discuss infectious diseases and the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. But the blog is open for anyone to comment regardless of their qualifications, including you and I.

I prefer to evaluate logic and evidence with some allowance for possible sources of bias.

The author derives inner satisfaction from writing these blogs as I do from my occasional comments. I choose to come back here regularly because I find it informative.

With Covid-19 case counts in Michigan running as high or higher than the peaks last winter and last summer, I suspect the author doesn’t do nearly as much “mingling” with other people as he might prefer.

Technically the Phase 3 trials for the 3 vaccines approved in the U.S. will be ongoing until 2 years after the last vaccine was administered sometime in the fall of 2022. But all that remains to be learned from them is some information about further infections and the longevity of the antibodies.

Phase 4 monitoring began a year ago when the vaccines received EUA approval and we began widespread vaccination of millions of people. And the effectiveness and safety data from Phase 4 has revealed risks of CVST and myocarditis at a much lower frequency than could have been detected in the Phase 3 trials.

But they don’t support Malone’s claims which seem partly to derive from radionuclide tracing in mice that was done prior to Phase 2 testing and rehashing longstanding gripes about vaccines.

And Malone seems to ignore that Covid-19 has ongoing effects on the brain, cardiovascular system that are much better documented in addition to the serious risk of hospitalization and death.

You don’t seem to be interested in discussing these matters. But perhaps you could bestir yourself and help me find out one thing.

Malone stated

<

blockquote>We need at least 5 years of testing/research before we can really understand the risks</blockquote

as if it were some sort of official standard. And he’s not the only person who cites the 5 year number.

But, AFAIK, it is just a generalization based on development of vaccines for diseases that are not as widespread and the need is not urgent enough to garner that government and pharma support you don’t like.

Do you know or can you find any official documentation supporting that 5 year number?

And no, now that we have completed Phase 1, 2 and 3 testing in adults, moved on to similar tests in adolescents and then on to 5-11 year olds, and those tests have shown no serious adverse effects and even the Phase 4 monitoring has shown only a low incidence of myocarditis with one death in a 22 year old, I do NOT consider it criminal to vaccinate our children in the tested age ranges.

The CDC has not approved vaccination for children younger than 5. And based on the preliminary results from Pfizer’s trial in that age group, that approval is unlikely in the near future without considerable additional research.

And Covid-19 deaths are up 4% at 1345 which fortunately is still much less than we were averaging a year ago.

Exactly so!
Any sincere reader that relates these expressions to their context, will agree.
If you don’t, you have a lot of explaining to do; perhaps you are willing to pick that up then, as none of the questions asked gets answered.

Btw, I will do the same scanning of Mr. Gorski’s text about the respected docter Malone and will report back on his relentless flood of denigration, meaningless speculation and suspicion.

I’ll show with a a link I’ll provide that this tactic of smearing isn’t new and what his goal is. Then it gets even more obvious what a weasel that Big Pharma payed David Gorski of yours is.

Oh, goody. The Pharma Shill Gambit, an obvious ad hominem that I’ve been describing since 2005.

http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/08/pharma-shill-gambit.html

Seriously, dude. I have to ask: Where’s all my filthy pharma lucre? Why am I still seeing patients, operating, and trying desperately to fund my lab with repeated applications to NIH and other sources. I mean, why isn’t big pharma keeping my lab funded and me in postdocs until my comfortable retirement? Why did my car’s odometer just roll over to 100,000 miles the other day? Why don’t I get a spiffy new car, courtesy of my big pharma paymasters, on a regular basis long before the odometer even gets close to large numbers? Where’s my mansion? Why do I live in a nice but not overly large or lavish house, as you might expect a professor of surgery at a medical school to own?

Look, I’m not claiming to be poor. I’m fortunate and privileged. I am respected at work and make a comfortable salary, as most clinical faculty do (although I could probably make a lot more in private practice). But “big pharma paid”? Dammit, where’s all that filthy lucre so that I can get a spiffy new luxury car?

@ Orac

“Seriously, dude. I have to ask: Where’s all my filthy pharma lucre? Why am I still seeing patients, operating…”

Because you work for Hydra, Dr. Whitehall.

And, as we all know, discovery requires experimentation.

Hail Hydra !

@F68.10

“”A question is never an accusation.” OK. Here goes: Did you stop raping babies ? Answer “Yes” or “No”.”

Answer is: No.

At the most it may be a painful question in case I did rape babies. But if I’ve got nothing to hide and did not rape babies, the question just doesn’t make sense and I will then tell you so.
These boys and girls here trying to defend inappropriate behaviour of Mr. Gorski don’t even have the guts to answer some basic questions that provide their readers some relevant info.

Dr Gorski has said multiple times that he is not paid by Big Pharma, Have you not noticed that.

You’re missing the pint:
Answers are not the point – creating an atmosphere of doubt is the only goal.

@ Lucas

““”A question is never an accusation.” OK. Here goes: Did you stop raping babies ? Answer “Yes” or “No”.”

Answer is: No.”

Thank you for the straight answer.

Much appreciated.

@rs
Question to Joseph Mengele: did you in your profession as a docter assist Mr. Hitler’s Nazi regime?
– That is an accusation!
No, it is a question for you to answer, so that we can be informed about your relation to said regime and draw our own conclusions about you and your motivation.

On the one hand you guys are not aware about what’s going on in the real world, on the other you support the wrong side and hide your motives. Isn’t that already corrupt?

The real motive currently trying to tell you some facts, like what gene therapy actually is. People may disagree you because you do not know anything, so know.

Lucas, here are a few exampes of you disguising accusations as questions. Your own words.

“Meanwhile Big Pharma most likely supports [Orac’s] BS as well. Isn’t that so, David?”

To Narad: “Oh, and while you’re here, please tell us who pays you for your hard work here…Please inform us on your background as well.” Not strictly a question, but definitely an accusation.

“So there apparently is something you are trying to hide. Is this perhaps Big Pharma lobby through you as a mediator?”

“What do you think is wrong with finding out who pays these people here?” Assumes we are being paid to do this.

“Is it wrong to try and protect the very young that cannot protect themselves from money hungry wolves?” Assumes that the people promoting vaccination are “money hungry wolves”.

To JustaTech: “Are you such a [paid] weasel too as well? It’s a conglomerate?” Assumes some of the commenters here are paid to promote vaccines.

Your Mengele scenario above is frankly disingenuous and spurious.

@Julian Frost

Time to open your eyes Julian, David is a small but dangerous weasel to our society.

He plays a role as a payed advisor. Nothing wrong with that in itself, except that the organisations that pay him and his team have some really nasty intentions for you and me. It is their propaganda that David is parroting. That is why he uses these vicious tactics against specialized and experienced phycisians with a different opinion.

And of course Julian do I try and pull the words out of the mouths of these cheaters here, as they keep hiding their motives. Wouldn’t you? And about hese motives, you always first have to follow the money. It’s not that difficult, Julian.

Your and my government, as well as Big Pharma and our media cannot be trusted at all. Time to do your own research, Julian.

And Julian, you mentioned a ‘Mengele scenario’, not me. However, if we don’t wake up now, you will no doubt see that there will be a Mengele scenario. It is in fact spot on.
Like Cthulhu here says: “If only you knew how bad things really were.”

Time to start reading, Julian. Begin with the website of the WEF. After that you investigate the plans of the UN, IMF and WHO. They are all in line, and what they are after is a power grab with you ending up as a slave if you’re lucky.

Do you have relatives you love, Julian? Then for their sake I hope you start and use your brains now.

@ Lucas

“Time to start reading, Julian. Begin with the website of the WEF. After that you investigate the plans of the UN, IMF and WHO. They are all in line…”

Are they ? That’s great !!!

Champaaaaaagne !

“…and what they are after is a power grab with you ending up as a slave if you’re lucky.”

I don’t think so. WEF, UN, IMF and WHO are overall doing a great job. Of course, I may disagree on many things, but I’m quite happy that they are playing their role.

@Lucas:
And Julian, you mentioned a ‘Mengele scenario’, not me.
I was referring to your comment of December 23, 2021 at 7:43 am, where you wrote:

Question to Joseph Mengele: did you in your profession as a docter assist Mr. Hitler’s Nazi regime?
– That is an accusation!

You were the one who brought up Mengele. You are arguing in bad faith.

@Lucas Interesting thing is that you do not try to refute anything Dr Gorski says. If it is propaganda,it must be wrong.

Lucas:

You know what’s corrupt? Encouraging people to endanger the lives of themselves and others by lying about vaccines, just to satisfy some twisted need to be “edgy” or “in the know”.
Lying? Yes, I went there. Or would you prefer psychotically delusional?

I don’t think the veracity of the discoveries made by Edward Jenner and others are in question here.

What is in question is the bureaucracy being constructed on a global scale, concerning the vaccination status of an individual.

The accusation is that authorities are knowingly constructing this bureaucracy in bad faith – claiming it is about public health, when really it is about social control – and is the boot-sequence stage, to a set of ever more totalitarian further control measures.

Are those in authority using the “unassailable good” of public health measures to side-band a different agenda? Then brow-beating any critics of the agenda with a straw man response of being a science denier and a threat to the public good.

@Cthulhu Vaccination prevents COVID, thus vaccination status monitoring.No other purposes here.

The power elite want to construct a social control matrix based on two main mechanisms: Social control via
– centrally administered digital identity
– centrally administered digital money

Vaccination status is the chosen vector to implement the first.

The pro-vax / anti-vax flame wars are a complete red-herring.
Someone who is pro the “social control matrix” is functionally equivalent to a pro-vaxxer – which also provides them with perfect plausible deniability: It’s all about public health maaaan.
Conversely – you cannot argue against the social control matrix, without being accused of being anti-vax – so your arguments are based in science denial and can be conveniently ignored.

If you are pro vaccination – yet have yet to notice how the social aspects of vaccination are being used for coercion and segregation – you are simply a useful idiot, under the control of the social control matrix constructors.

If only you knew how bad things really were.

Just like they’re keeping a registry and coming for my guns? People like you have been selling variations of this same paranoid theme since I was a kid. I call it the Myth of the Hypercompetent Government. It’s an instant tell that you have never worked in government or the intelligence agencies. I have. They’re in total disarray on a good day.

Plot yourself a graph of “Trust in the Authorities” vs “Knowledge of history”

A difficult task I realise, for someone raised in the United States of Amnesia.

Bring back bullion I say. There’s nothing like shaving a bit of gold from a block the size of a brick to make you feel free. Mind you, wallets will have to be a bit bigger.

“you cannot argue against the social control matrix, without being accused of being anti-vax”

Hmmmm. It depends on whether you bring a load of poorly thought out conspiracy theories to the table or not. You could just be viewed as selfish.

I hope the irony of being accused of acting selfishly, in the act of resisting coercion by psychopaths isn’t lost on anybody.

You don’t think it’s selfish to put your own feelings above the health and lives of others?

Actually digital identity means that your digital payments are safe, nobody can take money from your account using forged credentials
You of course can oppose surveillance state. Check NSA and FBI

Ah … “Für Ihre Sicherheit” as they used to say in Germany.

Who can change the balance of you account is dependent entirely on who controls the private cryptographic keys.

Spoiler: With Central-Bank backed digital currency (CBDC) – it won’t be you, the account holder.

Only you yourself know your private cryptograhic key. This is why it is private.

I reside in the UK – so I have never even seen a gun IRL (Other than a shotgun)

Yes – they created a registry – then removed them all. 😉

My bunch of keys has a penknife on it. A work colleague once ask me if I was concerned about being stopped by the police in possession of such a weapon.
(I sometimes peel oranges with it – so I do present a real and present danger to citrus fruit)

The government doesn’t have to be hypercompetent – just competent enough.

“Oi mate, you got a loisence for that butter-knife permit?”

Go and read the Declaration of Independence, again.

If you live in UK, check GCHQ. If goverment want to spy you, excuse is not public health,

@Cthulhu
Finally someone who actually knows what is going on.
If only more people were like you, here they nearly all seem to be in a deep sleep.

I repeat your words here, because what you say is of vital importance for every citizen. Your personal freedom is at stake. Take it from me as an insider of the WEF or just read it for yourself, the info is all there. Indeed this is exactly what is going on:

“The power elite want to construct a social control matrix based on two main mechanisms: Social control via
– centrally administered digital identity
– centrally administered digital money

Vaccination status is the chosen vector to implement the first.
The pro-vax / anti-vax flame wars are a complete red-herring.”

Even though I’ve been saying this in other words here, people do not (want to) notice; a famous psychologist explains this as mass hypnosis.

We are now in the phase in which the vaccinated is set up against the unvaccinated; just like Germans were set up against Jews back then. Stupid people, are you really no more then puppets on a string?

Mr. Gorski however isn’t a fool. And he clearly profits from the system set up for the goal you described. A goal in which they fulfill a dirty role, instead of being neutral or better: to speak out against what’s happening.
It is just like the Nazi docters did back then. Like I said ten times, or so, already: he is a weasel.
Unfortunately he and his team work against our and even their own long term interests. In fact it’s beyond imagination.

So yes:

“If only you knew how bad things really were.”

True, and in fact it will get way worse.

Thanks for the endorsement.
I can’t understand what is motivating Mr. Gorski either.

Are such people simply the nerds that calculated the time of the solar eclipse, only to pass the information to the high-priests, in order to terrify the population?

Maybe he sees value in their vision of the World to come?

As you say – he is no fool.

I really don’t know …

@ Cthulhu

“Are such people simply the nerds that calculated the time of the solar eclipse.”

The nerds that calculate the time of the solar eclipse are responsible for the development of your whole science and hence civilisation. Since Antiquity.

They don’t just waste their time sitting at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

Show some respect, will ya’ ?

@F68.10
Antarctic ocean, to be pedantic. And don’t be bringing MY science and civilization into it, thank you.

@ Cthulhu

“Antarctic ocean, to be pedantic. And don’t be bringing MY science and civilization into it, thank you.”

Well, yeah, I did read your opinion piece in the Gorafi.

I must say, I do believe that OUR science and civilisation, driven by the feats of astronomers over the ages, is a bit more worthwile than your political opinions.

Antarctic ocean, to be pedantic.

The Southern Ocean starts at S60°, to be more pedantic.

Dr Gorski is a cancer surgeon and pays his website from his own pocket
You are a WEF insider ? A CEO of a bg company ?
As I told Chulhu before digital identity is about safety of digital transactions. There is no database of digital identities.
And I repeat: If government wants to spy you, excuse is not public health,

@TBruce
“Encouraging people to endanger the lives of themselves and others by lying about vaccines”
What a stupid reply. I am hardly saying anything about these vaccines. Where did you read that?

I advice you to read the words of ‘Cthulhu’ here in this forum carefully and do your own investigation. Like I said, this isn’t really about vaccines or public health.
Time to wake up and start reading.

I wasn’t referring to you in particular, although I’m pretty sure you’re in that group. Oh yes, that reply of “U stoopid” has certainly put me in my place.
I guess I’ll wipe my tears with Big Pharma banknotes.

@NumberWang

“Hmmmm. It depends on whether you bring a load of poorly thought out conspiracy theories to the table or not. You could just be viewed as selfish.”

Hmmmm no, it does not depend. Like Edward Snowden says: “The Worst Conspiracies Are In Plain Sight”.
The fact that you don’t see what is going on is your problem. It is not a conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy. And you can read about it yourself at the official websites. Time to get out of your hypnosis, NumberWang?

The fact that you don’t see what is going on is your problem.

Then why are you pestering everyone here?

@ Narad

“The fact that you don’t see what is going on is your problem.” — Lucas

“Then why are you pestering everyone here?” — Narad

Because it’s his problem.

Logic.

Malone: “If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.12 They’re at the top of a pyramid that controls basically everything, but you don’t hear about their terrifying monopoly because they also own the media.”

Right, just call anyone who defies you and your drug pushers conspiracy theorists.

What — you actually think the current censorship policies are ok?? You really think censorship is good for a supposedly democratic and scientific society?

I am starting to wonder if Orac is one of Fauci’s army of propagandists. How can anyone think ALL vaccines are safe? How can anyone think the drug industry does not influence our government?

@Indie Rebel
To make things worse: your freedom is at stake.
These people have united. That is why this non chosen organisation like the WEF, in which the most powerful organisations and influencers are represented, has become so powerful. Its plans are being rolled out now, the intentions are evil.

“How can anyone think ALL vaccines are safe? How can anyone think the drug industry does not influence our government?”

What’s your definition of safe? Would you rather have a dangerous vaccine with a 1/1000 chance of death, or the disease with 1/100 chance of death? How about surgery? Would you trade two weeks of life for an operation that has a 50/50 chance of killing you, but, if successful, you’ll live for another thirty years?

Of course the drug industry influences your government. So does the food industry, the oil industry and every other industry big enough to have a presence. You’ll also find plenty of anti-vax influence in government too. Not to mention the gun lobby. I suggest that you vote for politicians who champion independent science reviews by people who know what they are talking about. Who value organisations like the FDA for what they can do rather than trying to make political pawns out of them.

You write ‘Right, just call anyone who defies you and your drug pushers conspiracy theorists’ but also want to label those who call you out ‘Fauci’s army of propagandists’. Strange how that happens.

Blackrock and Vanguard holds minority interests, as a part of balanced portfolio. This is not controlling.
Nobody have censored Malone, have you noticed. It is just that nobody believes him.

More current Malone:

In summary, the risk of hospital admission or death from myocarditis is greater following COVID-19 infection than following vaccination and remains modest following sequential doses of mRNA vaccine including a third booster dose of BNT162b in the overall population.

HTH. HAND. FOADIAF.

@all readers, @Orac

Please have a look at this informative Youtube video about manipulation; its content is neutral, not censored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU

Now relate what you heard in the video to the content of the article of David Gorski here (just like the content of his other blogs, btw). Let me know what is your conclusion.

To sum up a few of his personal attacks in the article – without giving any (!) evidence whatsoever – on docter Malone:

“I do question his qualifications these days”
“went full antivaccine”
“antivax disinformation”
“spreading disinformation”
“went into conspiracy theories”
“Dr. Malone was whining that Wikipedia was “erasing him””
“assisting the antivaccine movement targeting Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn with disinformation”
“your turn to the Dark Side”
“Gorski: debunking COVID-19 conspiracy nonsense about the vaccines”
“Do you think he’s wrong or not qualified enough for you? Answer: Yes, Dr. Malone is wrong, and, I do question his qualifications these days.”
“If the “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Malone doesn’t know that, then he’s definitely not qualified, and if he does know that he’s a liar.”
“slasher” lie and of course, Malone is parroting it.”
“Suggesting he feels slighted because he hasn’t been acknowledged”
“Malone is indisputably antivax right now.”
“Joe Mercola (another physician), a quack”

And about Dr. Malone’s motivation Gorski says:
– “culturally relevant and famous in a way that he had never achieved before and can probably never achieve in any other way”

We won’t ask where Gorski gets all of his whisdom. He even has no background in virology, immunology or vaccinology.
Unlike dr. Robert Malone; he is a virologist and an immunologist who’s work has focused on mRNA technology, pharmaceuticals, and drug repurposing research. He has an extended track record, with about 100 scientific publications with over 11,477 citations of those peer reviewed publications.

Please feel free to share with us if you find any underpinning of his accusations. I couldn’t find any.
Apparently the truth doens’t count, otherwise we would have read Gorski’s scientific substantiation. But it’s not there, despite the very long story he wrote.

So ask yourself, isn’t the one and only goal of Gorski to try and smear the reputation of a highly experienced and knowledgable docter?
And why? Because dr. Malone goes against the mainstream narrative.

Be careful people.

It takes all my strength not to tremble in fear from your so prophetic diagnosis of something. I’ll be oh so careful. No and No to your questions. I ought not go on but I will.

Orac is by far the more neutral thinker and observer of reality than Attkisson. Not even close. Me, I just don’t think you comprehend well. It is pointless to ingest your opinion much farther unless to note the derision of fact it denotes. Yea yea, Gorski said some terse and unkind things. Boo hoo. Really is this your gripe on a private blog — you tender thing. Anyway, I’ll be oh so careful of course and get me some booster!

The REAL S. Attkisson hates science, evidence, government, health, and experts who know what they are talking about …

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/anti-vaccine-sharyl-attkisson-threatens-to-sue-dr-peter-hotez-for-defamation/

You still do not say why these statements are wrong. If they are propaganda, they should be obviously false

@JustaTech
“Lucas, it doesn’t seem like you understand how grant funding works… Now to turn that question around, Lucas, are you being paid to post here? Or are you doing it of your own volition?”

You make me laugh. We did lots of funding work, mostly research – public and private. Now you come and tell me how that works.
Well, in what kind of a phantasy world do you live, if for one minute you have the impression there is no relation between the granting and the researcher’s PR or relationship with the sponsor. And for that matter, even the outcome of that research is often payed for, especially if politics is involved. Are you a student, JustaTech?

With regard to that “over the last 20 years, Gorski’s research has been funded by the NIH, the Department of Defense”. And meanwhile I guess by Big Pharma too, at least Gorski hasn’t denied it.
And please, don’t talk to me about Big Pharma. Isn’t f.e. Pfizer just one big criminal organization with billions payed in fines and settlements? Comon, it’s 2021 and next year will be even worse.

I already answered your last question about being paid to post here. Answer is no.
The only wish I have is that you guys finally wake up and do your homework. We are in the midst of an authoritarian power grab and be it small, Gorski and his team are part of it. We all need to see what’s going on in order to try and halt this.

Do your own research, read Dr Gorski’s papers in Pubmed and check their funding. Report Big Pharma funding.
Have you ever applied for a grant ? Report your experience.

@Orac
“Look, I’m not claiming to be poor. I’m fortunate and privileged. I am respected at work and make a comfortable salary, as most clinical faculty do (although I could probably make a lot more in private practice). But “big pharma paid”? Dammit, where’s all that filthy lucre so that I can get a spiffy new luxury car?”

I never said that you are big pharma paid, I asked this. Still this is no answer.
And we have more then covered your financial ties to the US government, see the previous topic. You are without a doubt dependent.

In order to keep your fortune, I hope you have a good financial advisor. The middle class, of which you’re a part, will be the biggest looser without a doubt

@Orac
“Spare me. You were JAQing off.”

Still no answer…

No one, and certainly no fat paid surgeon, would write endless stories without real content, just attacking and insulting.
It would otherwise come down to an expensive hobby from someone in need of a shrink.

“would write endless stories without real content, just attacking and insulting.”

Now, what does that remind me of?

There is a challenge for you: if Dr Gorski were a pharma shill, his claims would be wrong; Big Pharma cannot utter a true statement. So enlighten us, and tell us which claim is wrong and why.

@Narad

“Then why are you pestering everyone here?”

I’m not going to repeat myself, but I hate to see an evil plan being rolled out in this world, more specifically and starting in the west. And I loath the people here that are willingly part of it.
Look, I can go whenever to wherever I want. But fleeing the country and part of the world (Europe) I grew up in because of a group of powerhungry sociopaths, is definately worth fighting against.
Only if the bigger part of society wakes up in time these morons will not be able to take control over your life and mine. But that’s a small and closing opportunity.
Tell me, have you any idea what I’m talking about?

@ Lucas

“Only if the bigger part of society wakes up in time these morons will not be able to take control over your life and mine. But that’s a small and closing opportunity. Tell me, have you any idea what I’m talking about?”

I believe you believe that Satan is reigning in this world.

“That is why this non chosen organisation like the WEF, in which the most powerful organisations and influencers are represented, has become so powerful. Its plans are being rolled out now, the intentions are evil.”

I’m pro-WEF.

Switzerland is blessed country. Davos is a magnificent place.

And yes, “elites” have a right to talk about the state of world affairs.

It’s the opposite that would be tremendously worrying.

It’s your fantasised utopia that is terrifying.

The first article I saw on the WEF homepage was about problems with supply chains during the pandemic.

Those evil, evil bastards.

Everyone got enough bog roll in for Christmas?

“Then why are you pestering everyone here?”

I’m not going to repeat myself, but I hate to see an evil plan being rolled out in this world, more specifically and starting in the west. And I loath the people here that are willingly part of it.

Great, you’re going to save the world by jabbering idiotically about everybody at RI being on the take. Makes perfect sense.

@F68.10
“I’m pro-WEF.
And yes, “elites” have a right to talk about the state of world affairs.”

Ask yourself, would you have been ‘pro-Nazi’ back then, like most Germans?
No? If you’re so sure, then try and motivate why not. I’m listening.

Globalists have late stage plans to track everyone and everything. And they want you to believe your world is somehow going to be better. Does that makes sense to you? The Great Reset means the elites gain control over your life. But hey, since you’re pro-WEF now, don’t complain later.

Ignorance – a blessing now, a pain later

The Great Reset means the elites gain control over your life.

Christ, you fall off the turnip truck and think you’re on to something new rather than peddling the same bag of turds that’s been regifted far too many times already.

@ Lucas

“Ask yourself, would you have been ‘pro-Nazi’ back then, like most Germans? No? If you’re so sure, then try and motivate why not. I’m listening.”

Ok. So: No. And the reason is very simple. Given my records, I would have been murdered in Aktion T4.

But thank you for asking.

“Globalists have late stage plans to track everyone and everything.”

Bullsh-t. They have no such plans.

“And they want you to believe your world is somehow going to be better.”

No one is asking you to “believe” the world is somehow going to be better.

In fact, I believe the world is heading for a war. The AfPak + China situation is bound to degenerate very sensibly, and I wouldn’t be surprised a nuke did go off in the next 30 years.

“Does that makes sense to you? The Great Reset means the elites gain control over your life. But hey, since you’re pro-WEF now, don’t complain later.”

The Great Reset is nothing like what you pretend it to be.

Again. I’m pro-WEF.

“Ignorance – a blessing now, a pain later”

Speak for yourself, Spinoza.

@Lucas

But you are repeating yourself and it isn’t even you. You repeat the lines of an ignorant and paranoid club. You don’t even know it. Us, wel know what you are talking about and respond to the delusional with consternation and some love for those who deserve it. BTW, what kind of arrogance drink did you have this week?

Your knowledge and perspective is really not that special. I loath the liars and speculators of the anti-vaxx crowd. Yeah, I can say things too!

I know exactly what you are thinking and just laugh. We are sheeple right and you know best because something magic and unicorny.

I applaud the folks here who attempt to apply reason to help the paranoid. It is marvelous and helps me understand better what paranoid is and the COVID.

@F68.10
Good old Switserland, the bastion that does not need to surrender. How I miss it.

@ Lucas

“Good old Switserland, the bastion that does not need to surrender. How I miss it.”

Well, of course it needs not surrender. Let me explain.

Point 1: Planes are taking off and landing in the side of the mountains. Infrastructure, you know…

Point 2: Every male keeps their military weapons at home. In the closet. Government mandates it.

Point 3: People do not fight in Switzerland. They used to hire the swiss to do the fighting…

Point 4: Until they were coerced in neutrality for Eternity… at the Vienna Congress

Point 5: Then, when the french get kicked in the balls by the germans around 1870, it’s the french who surrendered and took refuge in Switzerland (cf. general Bourbaki, huge epic story…)

Point 6: Yes. They did not fight WW1 and WW2. Because they were neutral. And proudly so. They focused on building their infrastructure while the rest of the world was destroying their own. Y’a know, that fit und gesund mentality…

Point 7: When Europe goes into Civilisational Suicide Mode, it’s not that bad of an idea of having an island of cool-headed sanity in the lot.

Point 8: Yes, they piled up gold in WW2. And rightly so. And, no, they only give back the money to the owners. And rightly so. Murdered in the camps ? That sucks. But they did deal with the matter later on.

But tell me… when did the US join WW1 ? And why did the US wait for december 1941 to join WW2 given that the peak of Holocaust was 1942 ?

Another good ol’ country that also need not surrender is Poland. No one is ever asking Poland to surrender. Because no one cares about the answer.

BTW, how did the pullout from Kabul go ?? Smooth ??

Surrendering is an art the US should try perfecting a bit…

Yada yada yada…

@F68.10

“But tell me… when did the US join WW1 ? And why did the US wait for december 1941 to join WW2 given that the peak of Holocaust was 1942 ?
BTW, how did the pullout from Kabul go ?? Smooth ??”

I’m Dutch. Best you ask an American how the pullout from Kabul went. However, quite a few Dutch soldiers were not really able to leave the country (well, who expected differently from them anyway?).

The US joined WW1 in April 1917, after a U-boat sank a British ocean liner including somewhat over a 100 Americans on board. In the US, that intended to stay neutral just like the Dutch were during this war, public opinion on neutrality changed and after a threat of a German – Mexican coalition, Wilson came with his declaration of war against Germany.

About WW2, the Americans really didn’t go to war out of sympathy for the persecution of Jews, Jehova’s witnesses, Gypsies, the crippled or the Polaks & Polkas. It was the attack on Pearl Harbor that directly invited them to that war. Ah well, Japan’s expansion in the Pacific throughout 1941 had already made them nervous.
Unfortunately my country was pulled into this war against its intention. Our government’s kissing up of Hitler, even calling him “friend”, didn’t help; once this friend bombed our beautiful city Rotterdam, we realized that Hitler was an enemy. Whoo.

Unfortunately history does repeat. World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites, but played out on the ground by regular working-class people whose motivations were as diverse as they were.
Currently it is the same group of elites grabbing power again, on a global scale but again starting in Europe. And just like the run-up to WW2 people are in denial.
I wander how many will be victim this time.

Add History to the list of subjects you are ignorant on, Lucas.
The sinking of the Lusitania did cause a lot of anger, but she was carrying ammunition, and was a legitimate target.
It was in fact the Zimmermann telegram that led the U.S. to join the war.

@ Lucas

Ah… the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands… one of my main Heroic Epic.

But, of course, you cannot know what it means for planes to take off and land in the sides of mountains. A bit too flat over there…

“Unfortunately history does repeat. World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites…”

No. Driven by deep-seated ideological tensions in the western world. The “powerful elites” were not in control of that. And never could have been…

“…but played out on the ground by regular working-class people whose motivations were as diverse as they were.”

Dumb marxistoïd iconography painting “working-class people” as saints.

To me, sorry, that’s part of a denialist historiography.

“Currently it is the same group of elites grabbing power again, on a global scale but again starting in Europe. And just like the run-up to WW2 people are in denial.
I wander how many will be victim this time.”

You’re 100 % wrong.

Elites are powerless against the dynamics of the modern world. They control just about zilch.

They’re merely trying to keep the house together and in order.

And they’re failing miserably at that task.

The modern world is very simple:

One hemisphere finds it cool to throw rockets on Mars.

The other hemisphere finds it cool throw rocks on women.

The situation is very simple, really.

Reminds me of the old….adage? Joke?

Hierarchies are like a tree full of monkeys. The ones at the top look down and see a bunch of smiling faces. The ones at the bottom look up and see nothing but arseholes.

Doesn’t matter where you start in the tree. Once you get to the top, most people think you’re an arse.

@NumberWang
“The first article I saw on the WEF homepage was about problems with supply chains during the pandemic.
Those evil, evil bastards.”

The first article I saw was about the reorganization of the world on all levels until people are without possessions, pumped full of pills, eating their laboratory-created meat in hyper-technical, digitally networked “smart cities”.

No wait,

The first article I saw was about a German that once upon a time:
– started WW1,
– started WW2
– started the chaos ahead.

Oh, and it was about the three times people slept, as they should in a fairy tale.

“reorganization of the world on all levels until people are without possessions”

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Have you looked at the companies on the WEF partnership list?

What am I saying? Of course you haven’t.

I certanly want to see that article. Losing of possessions and being drugged is not part of smart city

@F68.10

“It’s your fantasised utopia that is terrifying.”
– What is my utopia then? Freedom?

@ Lucas

““It’s your fantasised utopia that is terrifying.”
– What is my utopia then? Freedom?”

You want freedom to blow up social institutions. Freedom to send countries in a downwards spiral of dysfunctional anomia, where plagues, misery, strife and despair is considered freedom.

I want freedom to organise our societies and get them prosperous. Which is why I defend the freedom of elites to associate, to devise solutions, and defend the right to deliberate about the solutions these elites bring to the table.

This is called liberal democracy.

I defend freedom.

You don’t.

And I do not defend the right of elites to evade discussion and public deliberation of their thesis. Which, to me, is what defines the right of the right wing. Well, the old-fashioned one, at least. Not the modern rabble rousing juggernaut of stupidity.

You should read “The Grand Inquisitor” by Fyodor Dostoïevski.

It’s short.

And it will make you grow up.

@Julian Frost

“Add History to the list of subjects you are ignorant on, Lucas.
The sinking of the Lusitania did cause a lot of anger, but she was carrying ammunition, and was a legitimate target.
It was in fact the Zimmermann telegram that led the U.S. to join the war.”

Dear Julian, forgot what the Zimmermann telegram was about?
I help you, it was a request from German foreign minsister Arthur Zimmermann to persuade Mexico to join forces with Germany.
Just like I wrote the moment was when Wilson came with his declaration. Now, who doesn’t know History, Julian?

One other point Julian, things aren’t always that black or white. Suppose we are good neighbours. But at some point I start provocing you with loud music in the middle of the night, slam the door in your face, whatever. Three days later you tell me I’m an asswhole. The next moment I kick you in the you know what.
Question: when did our ‘war’ start? Was this when our relation started to corrupt with the loud music or was it that particular moment I kicked you?
You’ll understand now.

And please pay more attention to the text next time, Julian. I did not say that WW2 started with the sinking of the Lusitania. But I had to mention the fact, as it contributed indirectly to the entry of the United States into World War I. Would you not have mentioned that fact, Julian?

At https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lusitania-British-ship you read: “… 20 minutes the Lusitania had sunk, and 1,198 people were drowned. The loss of the liner and so many of its passengers, including 128 U.S. citizens”. Now, the ship did also have some rifle ammunition and shells. Nothing unusual with that.
If this is why you call the action “legitimate”, I’m not too sure about your moral compass, Julian.

Despite your false correction, I do hope you know History, Julian. It is going to repeat and that is the exact reason I know History.
Don’t you think it is time you share your insights with the ignorant around you, Julian?

@ Lucas

“Question: when did our ‘war’ start? Was this when our relation started to corrupt with the loud music or was it that particular moment I kicked you? You’ll understand now.”

OK. I get it: It’s Poland that started the war against Germany…

After all, it’s indeed what the New York Times wrote…

@F68.10

“Unfortunately history does repeat. World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites…”
No. Driven by deep-seated ideological tensions in the western world. The “powerful elites” were not in control of that. And never could have been…
“…but played out on the ground by regular working-class people whose motivations were as diverse as they were.”
Dumb marxistoïd iconography painting “working-class people” as saints.”

You aren’t making any sense with your incoherent rhetoric. Ask yourself who started WW2, or any war for that matter? Is it the leader of a country or is it his citizens?
“The “powerful elites” were not in control of deep-seated ideological tensions”, you say. Even though this is plain nonsense, this doesn’t say anything about the motivation of the elites that started this war, does it?

And no, elites never go to war. It is basically and always the working class that does that job for them. Who else? I think Marx has nothing to do with that, does he?

What were these deep-seated ideological tensions in Europe anyway in your opinion? I think you’re just raving.
We have Germany, Italy, Spain, France, England to name a few. And there you found these deep-seated ideological tensions of yours that starts wars. Oh really? Tgg, I’m curious…we may perhaps rewrite history.

Nazism and democracy, Communism and democracy, fascism and democracy,Japan militarism and US are some examples ideological tensions that caused wars.

@ Lucas

“You aren’t making any sense with your incoherent rhetoric. Ask yourself who started WW2, or any war for that matter? Is it the leader of a country or is it his citizens?”

The ideologies of its citizens are very much responsible. The elites pandered to them. For vote banks.

“The “powerful elites” were not in control of deep-seated ideological tensions”, you say. Even though this is plain nonsense, this doesn’t say anything about the motivation of the elites that started this war, does it?”

The elites DID NOT WANT TO START THE WAR !!!

The French were trying to negotiate peace against Hitler. The elites negotiated peace. Ever heard of Munich conference ? No ??

Blow me to pieces or f-ck me sideways if you haven’t.

“And no, elites never go to war. It is basically and always the working class that does that job for them. Who else? I think Marx has nothing to do with that, does he?”

Marx is responsible for legitimising a hagiographic view of the “working class”, painting them as saints and absolving it of all responsibilities in all the havoc that besets them.

“What were these deep-seated ideological tensions in Europe anyway in your opinion? I think you’re just raving.”

Aarno gave them to you. Bottom line: fascism and communism decided to gang rape liberal democracies. And the “working class” people well quite fond of fascist and communist ideologies. So they started legitimising the rape of Poland, they then raped themselves, and then committed civilisational suicide.

The “working class” people were responsible for pandering to these ideologies. They are responsible for endorsing the ideologies that endorsed, triggered and perpetrated the war.

The elites, on the other hand, wanted to uphold liberal democracy. They got raped at first. And ultimately prevailed.

All hail the elites !!!

“We have Germany, Italy, Spain, France, England to name a few. And there you found these deep-seated ideological tensions of yours that starts wars. Oh really? Tgg, I’m curious…we may perhaps rewrite history.”

Told you: fascist and communist ideologies. They are responsible for the war. And these ideologies are still alive and kicking nowadays.

And I’m busy crushing them everywhere I find them.

If this is why you call the action “legitimate”, I’m not too sure about your moral compass, Julian.

I meant “legitimate” in a legal sense. U-20 should have surfaced, ordered the Lusitania to heel to, let everyone get off, then sunk her.

@Julian Frost
“I meant “legitimate” in a legal sense. U-20 should have surfaced, ordered the Lusitania to heel to, let everyone get off, then sunk her.”

Thanks for your clarification, Julian.

Lucas: “World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites”

That sounds an awful lot like the Nazi line, which claimed that “International Jewry” had launched WWII in order to bring about the “Bolshevization” of the world.* It’s more acceptable now to use code words like “elites” instead of Jews.

*how International Jewry reconciled a supposed lust for mass Bolshevization with an alleged embrace of unrestrained capitalism has never been adequately explained, but is self-evident to bigoted loons.

@ Dangerous Bacon

“That sounds an awful lot like the Nazi line, which claimed that “International Jewry” had launched WWII in order to bring about the “Bolshevization” of the world.”

Yep it is.

Lucas is completely unaware that WW2 was first and foremost a clash of ideologies. Resulted from the unwillingness of many people to endorse liberal democracies. Which is in itself is largely what is also happening elsewhere in the world nowadays.

The Jewish influence was obviously not a “conspiracy of elites”.

But God-entranced Jews in the Ukraine area were indeed engaging in agenda of social justice at the beginning of the 20th century that could only engineer a backlash: society can only swallow one amount of social justice at a time. So yes, the agenda jews had in this corner of the world was feared, and that fear was instrumentalised by Hitler. And when the jews started complaining DURING WW2, people dismissed them as whiners. And western or US media support for Jews would only have played in Hitler’s propaganda that the jews were behind the media. Which is why what happened could not be stopped and not even talked about. Though we did knew, from Witold Pilecki, who infiltrated Auschwitz as a wilful prisoner, and who sent out a simple message from within Auschwitz to the polish resistance and to the allies:

“Bomb Auschwitz.” — Witold Pilecki

Subtext: “with me inside: I don’t care.”

Some people very obviously are still replaying that tired and tiresome old game.

And that old game is pretty much not fun.

@NumberWang

“”reorganization of the world on all levels until people are without possessions”
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Have you looked at the companies on the WEF partnership list?”

When you finally stopped lauging Wang, yes, I know the companies on the WEF partnership list.
I said it frequent enough for you to notice that “I know exactly what is going on at the WEF”. Before I mentioned that I have a relative in the function as Economic advisor to our government as well as the WEF.
And then you come with this arrogance of yours, “ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha”.

NumberWang, you’re obviously not the brightest kid in town.
Obviously you try to make a point with your remark. Go ahead and finish your own suggestion about “the companies on the WEF partnership”.
But before you do, please study the WEF’s website. That might prevent further disgrace.

@ Lucas

“I said it frequent enough for you to notice that “I know exactly what is going on at the WEF”. Before I mentioned that I have a relative in the function as Economic advisor to our government as well as the WEF.”

That does not make you smart to understand the information you claim to be in possession of.

“But before you do, please study the WEF’s website. That might prevent further disgrace.”

Cut the crap. There are gazillions of such associations in Switzerland.

This is not a conspiracy.

This is what happens in Switzerland.

Geneva is the town with the highest densities of spies in the world.

It’s a very nice town.

But this is not a conspiracy. It’s intellectual, economic and diplomatic life.

It’s life. Nothing else.

Sigh. It’s rather sad that everything needs to be pointed out to you in metaphorical capital letters.

You say that the WEF have a plan which involves depriving people of possessions.

I say that you obviously haven’t looked at the WEF partnership list.

You say blah blah blah.

A large portion of the WEF partnership list are companies that supply personal possessions or create the components for personal possessions. Apple, for instance. Now, how well do you think Apple will do if no one owns iPhones or iMacs? There are several companies who make microprocessors on the list. Volkswagen, Toyota, a lot of Indian car manufacturers (they make those personal possessions called cars by the way). No more motorbikes Honda. UPS and DHL are in the club too, nothing to deliver though. Such sorrow, much sad.

I’d love to know why you think these companies are knowingly destroying themselves now, for a future they won’t be involved in.

That’s a lie. I’m not interested at all. You’ll just be regurgitating the koala pap you’ve been fed.

“I’d love to know why you think these companies are knowingly destroying themselves now, for a future they won’t be involved in.”

Once the global depopulation conspiracy kicks into high gear there won’t be anyone left to sell possessions to, so Profit!

If you can’t understand that it’s because you’re a Shill.

Now you must be nice and give me respect.

What you hysterical conspiracy freaks seem to have forgotten is that the “global elites” or the Illuminati or whoever else you’re terrified of, would already have access to a tremendous amount of information about everyone. Consider mobile phones, insurance records, internet profiles, social media etc.
Compared to this, vaccine “passports” are next to nothing. So what is the real issue? I can guess.

@Aarno Syvänen

I’m sorry that I haven’t noticed several of your posts; unfortunately they are placed in a chaotic manner. It seems some of my posts are even censored; I don’t see them anyway.

No, I have no expertise on vaccines. I am not even a phycisian.
I did follow an extensive course in statistics. In my analysis based on official British reporting, being vaccinated (regarding the first two doses) does not give any benefit concerning illness or death. Perhaps this sounds absurd, but statistics don’t lie (be it that the input is correct, which it was).

“Big Pharma does not pay blog commenters”. If hear you say so, Aarno. Indirectly perhaps they do?

“Interesting thing is that you do not try to refute anything Dr Gorski says. If it is propaganda,it must be wrong.” Where do you see Dr. Gorski write something that has any scientific value, Aarno?
Furthermore I am not going to debate anything of which I’don’t know the ins and outs well enough.

It seems some of my posts are even censored

Right — you don’t understand how comments get posted, so the first notion that you advance is “censorship.”

No, I have no expertise on vaccines. I am not even a phycisian.
I did follow an extensive course in statistics. In my analysis based on official British reporting, being vaccinated (regarding the first two doses) does not give any benefit concerning illness or death. Perhaps this sounds absurd, but statistics don’t lie (be it that the input is correct, which it was).

Well, where is it? What’s the design? Everything that, y’know, requires access to people is out. Somehow, though, I doubt that you quite made it to the finish line.

Actual statistics, of course show vaccine benefit (perhaps you refer a typo Peter Doshi used when he testified before congress).
Here is again, data from Singapore:
https://www.moh.gov.sg/
I cannot imagine what kind of indirect payment I get from Big Pharma,
If you ask, things written by Dr Gorski are of scientific value. Are you yourself saying that all his claims are correct (because you choose not to refute them) ?

@Aarno Syvänen

“Actual statistics, of course show vaccine benefit (perhaps you refer a typo Peter Doshi used when he testified before congress).”
– Statistics can be tricky stuff and is so often misused (very dependend on input too). The British data are very extended and certainly seem reliable. I’m sorry Aarno, it was the conclusion of analysys, can’t change that. There is without a doubt a short term effect of these vaccines.
That is why I arranged for my father that booster recently. But he lives in a risky environment, does not do any distancing, doesn’t wear a mask, hardly washes hands, had strokes after a bad fall and is old. Not good.
I think there are alternatives for him, but he wouldn’t use them anyway. He doesn’t care about anything, so I took the chances with the vaccine for a 2 month protection or so for him. Pretty worthless shit if you ask me, but may be a good choice during this period.
Btw, what my father makes jokes about (and that is about after both the second shot and now the boosters were administered in that retirement home; everyone is vaxxed in one day there) is a coming and going of ambulances and funeral cars (every day he’s in the hall alone reading the newspapers and that’s when the corpses are carried away). I asked the director some questions regarding the last 3 weeks (moment of vaccination). She admitted that indeed many are dying, but blamed it on the time of the year. Whatever, my father hasn’t had any side effect from his 3 jabs until now and hope it stays that way.
Just saying.

I don’t know the Singapore data Aarno. Unless you really want me to look at them, I won’t. But do be careful with ‘snapshots’!

“If you ask things written by Dr Gorski are of scientific value. Are you yourself saying that all his claims are correct (because you choose not to refute them)?”
– Not at all am I saying that!
I don’t regard him as serious with regards to these vaccines. Just useless.
But I wouldn’t know why he would not be a serious surgeon, good in what he does. He has drive too and someone so arrogant will likely want to prevent making mistakes in his work at all cost.

I don’t regard him as serious with regards to these vaccines. Just useless.

That’s funny. I don’t regard you as serious with regards to anything you’ve posted in the comments of this blog. It’s very clear that you are antivaccine and don’t know what you’re talking about at least 99% of the time.