When last I encountered Mark Sircus, who is an acupuncturist, practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine, and the director of the International Medical Veritas Association, it was in the context of discussions of the violent rhetoric of the antivaccine movement, with an article by Sircus from 2011 serving as one of the earlier examples that I had written about of an antivaxxer saying, “string the bastards up.” According to Sircus, the “bastards” whom he wanted to string up were the “doctors in white coats” who were injecting “poisonous heavy metals into babies.” (Unsurprisingly, the article is no longer on his website, which is why I had to link to an Archive.org Wayback Machine version of it.) More recent encounters with Sircus involved his selling an e-book advocating “natural allopathic medicine” (whatever that meant) to treat Ebola and pH quackery for cancer that he called “voltage healing.” He’s still touting “Natural Allopathic Medicine“—now capitalized!—for “cancer, heart and kidney disease, diabetes as well as for neurological conditions like Autism, Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s diseases,” (because of course he is)
Given that background, it is thus utterly unsurprising that, with the arrival of COVID-19, Sircus has pivoted to COVID-19 quackery. However, but he’s done it with a twist that makes him stand out a bit from other quacks and made me take notice. In brief, he combined two quack claims in one, first, the false claim that the mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 have are causing a massive wave of cancer and, second, the idea that Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS, a.k.a. chlorine dioxide, a chemical used as a bleach and disinfectant) is the cure for these cancers. He lays out his “case,” such as it is, in an article from a couple of days ago, ‘Vaccine-Induced Cancer’ Chlorine Dioxide To The Rescue.
The first thing I noticed about this article is how Sircus avoids referring to MMS initially. Instead, he writes:
We now have an inconceivable rise in cancer rates caused by COVID vaccines. Early in 2022, Senator Ron Johnson hosted a conference in Washington D.C. called “Second Opinion.” One of the speakers at this 5-hour recorded event last Monday was attorney Thomas Renz, who in the short time allotted to him, testified that three military medical professionals had become whistleblowers, putting their careers on the line, to expose data contained in the Department of Defense Medical Database, under oath and under penalty of perjury, regarding the explosion of miscarriages which increased by almost 300% in 2021, a nearly 300% increase in cancer, and over a 1000% increase in neurological injuries. Renz stated: “Our soldiers are being experimented on, injured, and sometimes possibly killed.” (by the COVID-19 vaccines.)
This was a conspiracy theory birthed by a trial lawyer representing “whistleblowers” who had supposedly downloaded the Department of Defense’s Defense Medical Epidemiology Database (DMED) and found a huge spike in cancer beginning after COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out. As I pointed out a couple of weeks ago, a far more likely explanation for the observed spike was some sort of reporting issue. The reason is simple. Cancer takes years to develop; so any association between a postulated carcinogen and any given cancer or cancers will take years to manifest itself. When you see a spike in incidence of, for example, esophageal cancer of nearly 900% in one year, you’re not looking at biology, carcinogenesis, or pathophysiology. You’re looking at a reporting issue with the database. Of course, Sircus, being a quack, doesn’t understand this and credulously takes the trial lawyer’s bogus numbers at face value because they support what he as an antivaxxer wants to believe, the narrative that COVID-19 vaccines are dangerous and cause cancer.
Sircus also cites Dr. Ryan Cole, the pathologist who has claimed that he’s seen a lot more cancer diagnoses since COVID-19 vaccines rolled out. His claims are, as I’ve described, unverifiable, anecdotal, unsupported, and downright nonsensical.
Don’t worry, though! “Dr.” Sircus has the solution (the Miracle Mineral Solution, actually) to this imaginary vaccine-induced wave of cancer:
What can anyone say in the face of the combined weight of cancer, genetic vaccines, and almost omnipresent COVID infections? We need a brigade of solid natural medicines, yet one substance could make all the difference for cancer patients—chlorine dioxide. There are many substances that can help us, but leading the charge up the hill is chlorine dioxide; it is the Tiger Tank of a new medical approach that will be necessary for the age of antibiotic-resistant infections and vaccine-induced cancer.
Personally, I find it rather interesting (and amusing) to quote the article to which Sircus links that describes MMS as the “Tiger tank” of medicine (the Tiger tank being a German heavy tank used in World War II that was feared for its destructiveness and heavy armor that made it difficult to destroy or disable. Of course, as a WWII buff I could also point out that the Tiger was also very expensive (costing twice as much per tank as a Panzer), difficult to manufacture, and very fuel inefficient, even for a tank.
None of this stops Sircus from making wild claims for MMS, like:
It is hard to dispute; once you get to know chlorine dioxide like millions already do, that it is the Tiger Tank of medicine, the point of the spear, an essential treatment that the FDA will never accept. It really is too good to be true, but it is true, as campers and water treatment systems have known for decades.
Chlorine dioxide empowers the immune system giving it a massive assist in its battle against pathogens and diseases. Though it is not the only oxygen therapy that can and should be employed, it is best if near-instant results are required, which is crucial if you come down with a COVID and suffer from a severe drop in oxygen.
Campers and water treatment systems? It is true that chlorine dioxide is used as a water treatment, both in water treatment systems and as water purification tablets for campers. It works mainly through oxidation to kill bacteria and inactivate viruses. It has some advantages over traditional chlorine, but is more expensive and is often used with chlorine to disinfect pools and water. Also:
Acute exposure of the skin to chlorine that originates from the decomposition of chlorine dioxide, causes irritations and burns. Eye exposure eyes to chlorine dioxide causes irritations, watering eyes and a blurry sight. Chlorine dioxide gas can be absorbed by the skin, where it damages tissue and blood cells. Inhalation of chlorine dioxide gas causes coughing, a sore throat, severe headaches, lung oedema and bronchio spasma. The symptoms can begin to show long after the exposure has taken place and can remain for a long time. Chronical exposure to chlorine dioxide causes bronchitis. The health standard for chlorine dioxide is 0,1 ppm.
I would also note that the concentration used to disinfect water is generally on the order of 1-5 ppm, which is a very high concentration to try to achieve in the body. Of course, I’ve done the math before regarding the claimed use of MMS to treat children and found that the amount recommended in, for example, Kerri Rivera’s protocol is easily much more than 120 times the amount of chlorine dioxide a child would get from just drinking tap water.
That’s why I’m amused by this part from the first article:
Chlorine dioxide possesses anticancer and antiviral activities, probably due to its inducing activity of ROS production. Chlorine dioxide exhibited significant cytotoxicity against two breast cancer cell lines (MCF-7, MDA-MB-231) and three colorectal cancer cell lines (LoVo, HCT-116, SW-480). This cytotoxicity appeared to be associated with the capacity of chlorine dioxide to induce the production of reactive oxygen species (ROS).[i]
ROS stands for reactive oxygen species, basically forms of oxygen, like ozone, that can oxidize more intensively. Just for yucks, I looked up the paper. It’s a Korean paper that does have an English translation of its abstract, which—surprise! surprise!—does not include the concentrations of chlorine dioxide used. Fortunately, I found the PDF, particularly this figure:
This study is ridiculous, because of course if you put a high enough concentration of bleach into the media used to grow cancer cells—or any cells,—it’ll kill those cells. That doesn’t make it an effective treatment for cancer, because it has to be able to get into the body at a high enough concentration to kill cancer cells without undue toxicity against the surrounding normal cells. Citing the experiment above reminds me of the classic XCD:
How, you might wonder, does MMS supposedly fight cancer? Look no further to Sircus parroting the “acid” narrative, in which cancer is due to “excess acid”:
Cancer involves an interaction between rogue cells and surrounding tissue. This is the clear message of Dr. Mina Bissell. The health or sickness of surrounding cells and the surrounding extracellular matrix interact to shape cancer cell behaviors such as polarity, migration, and proliferation.
Cancer cells routinely form in most people’s bodies in areas of low voltage, low oxygen, and acidic pH. Bottom line: the more acid conditions prevail, the more aggressive the cancer. Hypoxia and extracellular acidity are deeply associated with the cellular microenvironment and the spread of cancer.
The cells cannot detoxify themselves without sufficient oxygen, so acids build up. Without enough oxygen, the cells turn to fermentation as an alternate source of energy for survival, and this builds up acidity through the creation of lactic acid. Without enough oxygen, cells turn cancerous, or they die.
This is, of course, a narrative that misrepresents actual science beloved of cancer quacks like Robert O. Young, whom I’ve written about more times than I can remember. You remember Young, don’t you? He’s the “pH Miracle Living” quack whose main idea is that cancer, sepsis—indeed all disease—is due to “excess acid,” and his “cure” is his “pH Miracle Living” diet that’s supposed to be “alkaline.” Also of note, Young was prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license, spent time in prison (well-deserved and too short a sentence, in my not-so-humble opinion) and lost a lawsuit by a former client of his who was enticed to follow his program and died of breast cancer as a result, with a judgment of $105 million. If you want to get an idea of how bad this quack is, he is a germ theory denier who denies that even sepsis is caused by bacterial infection while claiming that cancer is a “liquid,” specifically a “toxic acidic waste product of metabolism or energy consumption.”
To combat this, Sircus claims that MMS generates oxygen:
There are other ways to ram oxygen down our mitochondria’s throats. However, one of the best and least expensive ways is chlorine dioxide. Chlorine dioxide” is a substance that provides oxygen to tissues and all body fluids, activating the mitochondria of cells, which in turn generate more energy that allows the body to recover.
Dr. Andreas Klacher says, “Many debilitating secondary infections with their toxins will be neutralized, thus relieving the liver and kidneys. In addition, there is much more oxygen and thus much more energy in the body. Chlorine dioxide thus provides more quality of life and lifetime in the short term.”
First, “ramming oxygen down our mitochondria’s throats” is not necessarily a good thing. Remember those ROS? Guess what? They’re carcinogenic! They cause DNA damage that the cell has to repair. Sometimes it can’t, and the result can be mutations that lead to cancer. So even if it were true that one MMS could generate more oxygen for the mitochondria, that doesn’t mean it works against cancer. Come to think of it, Sircus seems unable to make up his mind if cancer cells are invaders that need to be killed or if just a manifestation of too little oxygen in the tissues that can be reversed by magically providing oxygen to them:
Chlorine Dioxide targets cancer cells like a magnet because of the lactic acid at the cancer site. Once the Chlorine Dioxide comes into contact with lactic acid, it releases oxygen directly where it is needed the most. Cancer cells are known to produce excessive amounts of lactic acid. This is because cancer cells have dysfunctional mitochondria, which prevents their use of the citric acid [Krebs] cycle. Consequently, pyruvic acid, the product of glycolysis, which normally would enter the mitochondria for its total combustion into energy, is instead converted to lactic acid.
It is reported that cancer cells can produce 40 times more lactic acid than normal cells. As a result, their metabolism is dirty and poisons the cells around them with increasing acidity.
This is one of those quack claims that is sort of true, but misleading. It is true that many kinds of cancer utilize anaerobic metabolism, using glucose but not oxygen, which does lead to lactic acid production. Anaerobic metabolism is, of course, a normal physiological function. When adequate oxygen is around, it provides “fuel” for oxidative metabolism, which is much more efficient and produces far more energy in the form of ATP per molecule of glucose, but when there is inadequate oxygen it keeps the cell alive, but at the cost of needing a lot more glucose (because it’s a lot less efficient). That metabolic characteristic of cancer is why PET scans work, because PET scans measure uptake of radiolabeled glucose.
None of this, however, means that MMS works against cancer. As a Star Trek fan, I like to refer to technobabble, the seemingly scientific-sounding but actually nonsensical verbiage often inserted into old Star Trek episodes (particularly in, but not limited to, The Next Generation episodes) as a way of introducing a term for what Sircus is doing here: Biobabble or metabolobabble. It’s basically technobabble in the realm of biology and metabolism. It sounds impressively scientific, but any biochemist or cancer biologist can immediately recognize it as utter nonsense, because that’s what it obviously is to anyone with any knowledge of the subject. It sure does impress the marks, though, as do anecdotes.
A first patient with metastatic adenocarcinoma of the pancreas has decided, on his own, to refuse chemotherapy but to treat himself with lipoïc acid, hydroxycitrate combined with oral ingestion of chlorine dioxide. As a result, his blood tests and radiological examinations have almost normalized, and the disease is stable at 18 months. Another patient with hormone-resistant metastatic prostate cancer has experienced a sharp drop in PSA level as well as an improved medical condition.
I read that reference, and you know what? The pancreatic cancer actually grew from 3 cm to 5 cm in diameter during that time. Funny that Sircus didn’t mention that. The prostate cancer patient’s story is no more informative in that it is not clear whether his first decrease in PSA was associated with his starting MMS or was a delayed response to his chemotherapy. Moreover, although it is usually a good surrogate marker for total body tumor burden, PSA doesn’t always correlate precisely with overall tumor burden. Also, as is often the case with alternative cancer therapies, MMS was not the only treatment this patient was using.
Testimony of Breast Cancer treated with topical and ingested CDS. The person took 15 ml of CDS in a liter of water in 10 daily doses for one month. And she applied pure CDS pads topically in the morning and at night. In the images, you can see the evolution of results.
You might think that this looks like a very impressive response, but I noticed a key statement in the testimonial. The patient applied CDS pads to the open wound. There is a solution known as Dakin’s solution, which is basically dilute bleach (sodium hypochlorite, not chlorine dioxide) that was developed during World War I to treat infected open wounds that is still used today, although much less often than in years past. Given that MMS is basically another kind of bleaching agent that is also antibacterial, it is not unreasonable to speculate that it was the topical bleach, not the ingested bleach, that helped the open wound heal. Note how Andreas Kalcker is very careful not to show enough to assess carefully the size of the tumor. Indeed, I bet that, if the tumor had actually gotten significantly smaller, he would have shown the mammograms and/or ultrasound scans to prove it. In any event, we’ve met Kalcker before; he’s a true believer in MMS and has used it to treat autism, even using intravenous MMS to treat COVID-19.
I’ll conclude by giving Sircus a little “credit.” He’s managed to combine misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines and a truly vile form of cancer quackery into one black hole of COVID-19 and cancer misinformation and quackery. That is not a compliment, but quacks gonna quack, and grifters gonna grift.
51 replies on “Mark Sircus: MMS (bleach) for COVID “vaccine-induced cancer””
Sircus: “There are other ways to ram oxygen down our mitochondria’s throats.”
That’s the most holistic thing I’ve read lately.
Y’know, just once I’d like to see a quack declare that disease is caused by excess alkalinity, and that we need to dose ourselves with CO2 or acidifying foods and supplements to cure or prevent it. Still idiotic and potentially dangerous advice, but at least semi-original.
Mitochondria have throats?
He does not appear to be selling the MMS himself, though, instead linking to a company called All One Wellness https://allonewellnessnow.com – I have not found a direct link to him – and to a how to make it at home video with Andreas Kalcker.
Who knew that you need a scraper to keep your tongue “clean”?
eBay also profits off those coy listings for “water purification kits” that are intended to produce chlorine dioxide. Whatever makes them money is A-OK.
Yeah. I had a neighbor years ago who would go around sticking magnets on all of his water lines that he got from some “Disaster Preparedness” catalog…
No not selling it but making it and giving it away. Tonight I posted to a chlorine dioxide group the following:
I am being attacked heavily for coming out in favor of Chlorine Dioxide. I apologized for being against it 11 years ago, as some of you know. Tonight I read one post on this list of a person having reactions to the MMS that cannot be so easily excused by detox, though that is a convenient rationalization for some. I understand, believe, and trust Kerri Rivera when she says that CDS is not strong enough to reach into the depths of autism patients. Still, I do react a bit to the almost religious belief by some that MMS is much better than CDS, which is what I am happily using today at pretty high dosages without a problem. I deleted my old anti-MMS post from way back when, but tonight after seeing a page heavily attacking me, I desperately looked for a copy of my old post because I did report a death from MMS. Chlorine dioxide is a serious subject and serious medicine and should be approached that way. I will not change my opinion, stop using and giving away CDS, or listen to the idiots who have never tried it and call it bleach. But I will post this as a comment on the URL attacking me.
“I am proud of promoting bleach as a medicine and will keep encouraging people to take it and even give it to them, including for uses for which there is not only no evidence but no biological plausibility” isn’t actually a good counter to the points in this post.
And supporting abusing children with autism with bleach doesn’t make it better.
Chlorine dioxide is not serious medicine. There is no medical evidence that it does anything for disease. On the contrary, chlorine dioxide can damage the gastrointestinal system, cause diarrhoea, severe vomiting and liver damage.
People should not consume chlorine dioxide or sodium chlorine supplements under any circumstances.
Why dont these kooks do the absolute minimum research? They could read a very basic description of cancer genesis in about an hour. Even at that level they should begin to realise how wrong they are.
But reading all those fake descriptions might puncture their fantasies about the miracle cure that they just know will work if they weren’t suppressed by the evil that is Big Pharma.
These Kooks are disgraced doctors or never had a science degree to begin with.
Chlorine dioxide is immediately kind of scary if you take a moment to think about the molecule by itself. A chlorine with two oxygens that has neutral charge is an odd number of valence electrons, making it a doublet since it can’t fully cancel its own spin. This means the molecule is a radical. That’s why it decomposes into reactive species and generates ROS. Moreover, if you ask how the thing is held together as a doublet, you find out weird little tidbits like “3-electron bonds”, which means it’s not even held together by normal covalent bonding.
As you say: generate oxygen? Well, only the kind that can kill you! Oxygen isn’t always a wonderful thing to have a around as the definition of all oxidizers.
Would I want to consume ClO2 deliberately? Nope!
What happens to the chlorine if ClO2 gives up the oxygen?
For directly losing an oxygen atom, you could get hypochlorite (ClO-1), but that would require creation of an oxygen cation, which is kind of nonsensical. If the oxygen cation reacted with hydroxide, you could get superoxide plus a free hydrogen ion. I don’t know the energy changes for this, so it may not be likely. More likely, it will react with other chlorine dioxide to produce chloride, chlorite or chlorate, or with water to produce radicals –easiest way to get rid of radicals is for the radical to react with its own kind to get an even number of electrons, which would result in molecules containing chlorine and oxygen that are charged. Other bleaches.
I think it criminal that people were giving autistic children enemas with this stuff. Radicals are carcinogens and bleaches give chemical burns. Never heard a clearer case of child abuse.
I’ve heard tales from colleagues that they won’t even come to the ED or call EMS when these things go wrong because they know we are obligated to call child protective services. One of my partners had to deal with this a couple years ago when the family refused EMS transport…
It decomposes explosively to Cl2 and O2.
That is why chlorine dioxide is rarely stored as a gas and instead it is mainly stored as a low percentage aqueous solution.
That’s what I was wondering about. My chemistry days stopped when I left school but I know enough to know that chlorine is nasty stuff on its own.
Well you are foolish indeed but so was I 11 years ago when I published against its use. Back then I even reported what seems like the one and only death from MMS….but looking last night could not find any othes where aspirin, all forms of it…kill abouit 20,000 Americans a year….have you ever written a book about oxygen? I have and its published in NY. But all things aside I joined some groups lately and am listening to 30,000 people who disagree with you….but I admit, when I took my first sip 2 months ago I was slightly afraid….but it pulled me right out of \COVID and now I am taking high dosages and feeling great…..that should be impossible according to the essay on this URL.
The book that garnered this from a reviewer on Amazon? :
“This is the most poorly organized, poorly written book I can recall reading.”
and this from another reviewer:
“He then throws in everything in fringe alternative medicine to pad the book to 182 pages.”
How on Earth did someone with such a loose grasp of sentences and a propensity for ellipsis abuse ever manage to write a book?
Ooh, not-a-doctor Sircus responding to me directly, I suppose I should feel honored.
You know, when somebody calls me ‘foolish’ for saying drinking bleach is foolish, I feel compelled to laugh really hard and then stir-fry that person.
I chose the name I did for a reason. First, yes, I am foolish sometimes; physicists make mistakes and speak outside of their expertise. I remind myself of that every time I choose to write something on the internet. Second, admitting foolishness is not a flaw or an admission of defeat, it’s a chance to take measure of oneself and make corrections, thereby becoming stronger for it. I own my mistakes and picking the name I picked was no mistake. Finally, the quality of the argument is always independent of the name of the person making it. When people pull this ad hominem on me, they do so at their own risk.
Acupuncturist with delusions of grandeur? Why would anybody care that you published against it and then later decided you were for it? You have little qualification one way or the other, so no earned authority or credibility, and are making very poor arguments to suggest anybody should give a damn. As a scientist who works in chemistry and chemistry adjacent labs, and has done so for 20+ years, let me tell you something about drinking bleach:
Here’s the SDS
Antivaxxers love to drag out SDS documents for trace components of vaccines. This is an SDS for aqueous chlorine dioxide. This is the first document a competent chemist obtains when they find out they are doing any work with anything. It contains all the information about what health risks a chemical presents and what sort of protective measures you should take when working with it. Drinking chlorine dioxide? I’m not a bit persuaded my professional life would be improved at all by imbibing it. The words “POWERFUL OXIDIZER” and “DANGEROUSLY REACTIVE” are bold in that document for a reason. If people drag out SDS for vaccine components, why ignore it for this?
No, I’ve never written a book about oxygen and I also know that anybody can write a book about anything, especially in the age of Amazon. Freedom of Speech is the protected right to lie till your heart’s content in the United States. Writing a book does not mean you have any idea what you’re talking about, it just means you had time to set pen to paper and had money enough to get someone to sell the result.
Moreover, I would point out that aspirin and bleach are not equivalent: aspirin is meant to be consumed and a lot larger number of people take it orally, meaning it’s more likely to see a bad outcome upon consuming it. On the other hand, of 300 million Americans, only a tiny fraction believe bleach should be taken orally and of those that do, the statistics are in poison control rather than drug reactions and generally are counted as suicide attempts.
Speaking of that tiny fraction:
This is called “magnified minority.” Do you understand the concept of an echo chamber? 30,000 people self-selected on the internet based upon their desire to see this as true is not the definition of truth. It’s group think or mutual masturbation. 30,000 talking you up is not the 30 million who would look at an argument like this and say “Boy are you a moron; that’s drinking bleach.” But, standing in that group of 30,000 like-minded idiots sure will make you feel validated and justified.
How do you know it pulled you out of COVID? Maybe stubbing your toe on that first stair going to your basement pulled you out of COVID. Maybe that glass of water did it. Maybe it was that walk you took that day. Maybe it was mild COVID and your immune system just finally took care of it. Maybe, you’re a lying sack of poop met on the internet and every other word out of your mouth is untrue and you’re just making money shilling to people saying you drink it when you really have read that MSDS and know better. (No, I will neither buy nor read your book; the quality of your little pitch here doesn’t make me think I would be interested in reading what you have to say about anything)
Out of curiosity, how high a dose are you at? 292 mg/kg? I hear if you go that high you gain telepathy and start to see dead people. Care to try it and let us know how it works? (BTW, I’ve taken no Hippocratic oath; even though I can wear a Dr. on my name if I so choose, I’m not that kind of doctor).
Newsflash, Mr. Sircus. You do not have a PhD nor a medical degree. You have honorary degrees in baloney.
I suggest that readers don’t try this at home. The decomposition reaction for chlorine dioxide to chlorine and oxygen is highly explosive.
A typical aqueous reaction is an oxidation reduction reaction where the first product is the chlorite ion, which is then oxidised to produce the Cl ion and water (not oxygen).
DrSircus’s “Chlorine Dioxide To The Rescue” page has a link off to DIY instructions for making your own chlorine dioxide solution, in the form of a YouTube video by one Andreas Kalcker, who must be a scientist of distinction, because he’s wearing a pristine white lab coat.
In the video, one of the two reagents used to make the chlorine dioxide is sodium chlorite, and the bottle containing it is carefully labelled NaClo2.
Grrr… HTML sup tags don’t seem to work. The formula on the bottle is NaClo superscript 2.
Clo? what element is that? Or should it be a capital ‘O’?
And what happens when you square it?
He would need a coat of some sort. Making ClO2 requires either Cl2 gas (hard to get hold of) or HCl (easier to get hold of, but highly corrosive).
Other synthetic options are available using alternative starting points.
People really should not be trying this at home.
His HCl bottle was labelled 5%. Not really all that corrosive.
His lab technique was a pretty dodgy, though. He measured out the reagents with a syringe, using his bare finger to block the nozzle. That would discourage people from using concentrated solutions of HCl 😉
He says his own advice: “should not in any way be used as a substitute for the advice of a physician or other licensed health care practitioner. The statements contained on my sites and in my books have not been evaluated by the FDA. The products discussed are not intended to diagnose, cure, prevent or treat any disease but are proven useful for health and life extension. We always recommend when and wherever possible that licensed local healthcare professionals be consulted.”
I would have to agree with him on this.
Also, this section of his website starts with a bizarre diatribe about the First Amendment.
I posted on the 26 February 2022, two paragraphs about the doubts of operation ‘Warp Speed’ and that the use of the vaccine could be an utter disaster. Trump would pressure the FDA to approve a vaccine that has serious side effects and that an ex-Moderna executive was in charge of Operation Warp Speed.
Well the usual list of suspects replying
One can imagine the disaster that would occur…” if the moon were to spin like a top, swoosh past Antarctica and then stick its tongue out at us from the vicinity of Ceres. One can indeed imagine. Or one could follow the preponderance of evidence and biological plausibility. We can see which of those you’ve chosen.
Dr. Joe replied
“So, you quoting Mike Adams about as valid as a quote from the World Flat Earth Society. Just plain NUTS.”
And he ended his post with the usual
“I won’t bother going thru my point by point refutations of quote; but the fact you ignore even the aforementioned, shows just how either STUPID and/or DISHONEST you are.”
The quote was not from Mike Adams, but the story was about Mike Adams and his reluctance to use the vaccine.
The two paragraphs I posted were in fact, cut and pasted from Orac in August about his reluctance in the viability of the testing and efficacy of the vaccine. I just found it odd that the readers of this site would be so willing to throw someone under the bus who still has lingering doubts about the vaccine that were expressed by Orac.
If you don’t understand the difference between expressing concerns about the vaccine before the data was in and expressing the same sentiments after the data showed the concerns wrong, you are missing an important point about following the evidence and respecting data.
Orac – and others – expressed concerns about the vaccine before it was out, when there was no good data on safety and effectiveness.
Anti-vaccine activists are expressing concerns now in the face of extensive data that shows the concerns mistaken. Basically, they’re denying the evidence – and sometimes making things up.
Not the same at all.
My comment was not so much about Orac changing his mind (science does change), Mike Adams had doubts about the vaccine so did Orac. My comment was more about the two people who’s automatic criticism of two paragraphs and one who called me “stupid” and Orac’s original post was ‘flat earth”.
It is what is going on all over the country, now that masks are no longer in vogue and vaccine mandates are a thing of the past, people are claiming they were never really for those things.
We have become to quick to react or judge or express outrage of people with opposing views, in this electronic era, as a law professor you of all people should know that, its why we have a court and trials.
And what does this have to do with bleach?
Please at least attempt to stay on topic. You can continue your discussion about your Feb 26th post on that thread.
“Chlorine Dioxide targets cancer cells like a magnet ..”
But, but, but, the vaccines are BAD because they act like a magnet!
Actually, the notion that vaccines could produce virtually instant cancers strikes me as similar to the “turns your body into a magnet” claim — demonstrated by sticking house keys or stainless spoons to the skin — non of which are attarcted by actual magnets.
It’s off topic, but I’ll drop my latest COVID quack joke here:
Luc Montagnier didn’t like Moderna/Pfizer vaccines, but he had an “alternative” cure that worked via a French furin lesion.
Chlorine dioxide is good for bleaching wood pulp:
Pulp makers do not give any medicsl advice.
Bleaching wood pulp with chlorine dioxide creates a boatload of carcinogenic compounds. Unbleached paper is best. And trees are a crappy way to make paper, there are other plants that are better to use than conifer trees. Kenaf may be the best choice. Paper mills cause cancer and anti-vaxxers are delusional.
You write: “The quote was not from Mike Adams, but the story was about Mike Adams and his reluctance to use the vaccine.”
You had Mike Adams name at the top. Any reasonably intelligent person posting a quote would give its source. So, already you admit you don’t understand the basics of quoting, that is, going its source.
You write: “Dr. Joe replied
“So, you quoting Mike Adams about as valid as a quote from the World Flat Earth Society. Just plain NUTS.”
And he ended his post with the usual
“I won’t bother going thru my point by point refutations of quote; but the fact you ignore even the aforementioned, shows just how either STUPID and/or DISHONEST you are.”
Then: “I just found it odd that the readers of this site would be so willing to throw someone under the bus who still has lingering doubts about the vaccine that were expressed by Orac.”
I guess you really are TOO STUPID to have noticed that “the aforementioned, was a previous comment that I went thru it, especially refuting claim: “The trial has not yet been published in the peer-reviewed literature; it’s results were, rather, announced by press release. the trial itself was only a very early phase safety trial involving only eight subjects.”
I repeat, animal, phase 1, phase 2, and phase 3 studies were completed and phase 3 was published in peer-review journal, New England Journal of Medicine. And “only eight subject” well, I guess you and Mike Adams are really TOO STUPID to understand that 30,000 subjects is “slightly” more than “eight.”
Why do you keep MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF. I am NOT “throwing you under the bus because you are an expert at doing it yourself ! ! !
Joel the 2 paragraphs I use were cut and pasted from Orac’s post.
Those two paragraphs were not made by Mike Adams but were made BY ORAC. I was just pointing out that Mike Adams would be in good company if he expressed vaccine hesitancy.
What part of that didn’t you understand ????
Do you always/immediately accept the latest or newest science papers, of course you don’t, you take your time and read opposing science and study the issues, remember we have only had these (type) of vaccines for less than 15 months.
You write: “remember we have only had these (type) of vaccines for less than 15 months.”
Yes and no. As I wrote in previous comments, we have 100s of thousands of articles on mRNA going back to 1960s. Hundreds of articles on mRNA vaccine research going back 30 years, etc. And 15 months is a very long time to evaluate effectiveness and safety of a vaccine during a pandemic.
You just keep showing YOUR IGNORANCE
I know of chlorine dioxide as a sanitizing agent in food processing facilities. In the vast majority of those applications, it is generated on site by combining two reagents because stable chlorine dioxide solutions are very expensive and not all that stable. Wouldn’t surprise me if MMS has little or no actual Cl2 in it, just the memory of Cl2. ?
MMS when prepared for use certainly contains sufficient chlorine dioxide to be harmful.
It is commonly made by acidification, typically with citric acid solution, of a solution of sodium chlorite, shortly before use. MMS is sold as two solutions ready to mix.
You write: “I was just pointing out that Mike Adams would be in good company if he expressed vaccine hesitancy.”
Not when he was wrong to such a huge degree. And even if I were to cite something in an article by Orac, I would still make sure the reader knew where I got it, not assume they remembered it from Orac’s article. I learned to give references in junior high school. I guess you didn’t ever learn such.
You write: “Do you always/immediately accept the latest or newest science papers, of course you don’t, you take your time and read opposing science and study the issues, remember we have only had these (type) of vaccines for less than 15 months.”
First, I have been studying vaccines and the related sciences for over 30 years. Second, I started downloading/reading papers/reports on COVID-19 late January 2020, then followed the development of the mRNA vaccines, which included doing searches on mRNA, mRNA vaccine research prior to COVID, and the Spike Protein. Third, I have written over and over and you ignore, if a vaccine has serious adverse reactions they will occur almost always within a few weeks. Fourth, 15 months is more than enough time, based on data from around the world, to evaluate the effectiveness and risks from the mRNA vaccines and the overwhelming data is they are highly effective with minuscule risks. Even though Omicron more transmissible, those vaccinated, especially with booster, though infected, still far lower risk of hospitalization and death. So, you obviously ignore what I have written in umpteen comments and continue to show your BIASED IMMENSE IGNORANCE AND/OR DISHONESTY.
Please, explain what you know of immunology, microbiology, epidemiology, history of vaccine-prevented diseases, etc. And, while since January 2020 I have downloaded around 2,000 papers on COVID pandemic and vaccine, read half and skimmed many of others, how many have you read?
YOU ARE TIRESOME.
The header for Orac’s article includes a (quote?) about chlorine dioxide: “It is a very simple molecule composed of – 1 chlorine atom (Cl). – 2 oxygen atoms (O2).”
So, simple is beneficial.
Even better, why not use carbon monoxide? It is an even simpler molecule composed of – 1 carbon atom (C). – 1 oxygen atom (O).
Carbon and oxygen are both essential for life. Breathing pure carbon monoxide would be amazingly effective in killing cancer cells. I’m surprised that Sircus, a Doctor of Oriental and Pastoral Medicine hasn’t picked up on this.
Those photos of the wound healing and Orac’s comment about them reminded me about using the same treatment way back in the 70s/80s.
We called it Eusol (allegedly an acronym for Edinburgh University Solution of Lime) and used to make it up ourselves.
Specifically it was 12.5ml of bleach diluted with water to make the volume 100ml.
I have no idea why I still remember that specific formula.
Chlorine dioxide != sodium hypochlorite (bleach). See: https://www.clorox.com/learn/what-is-bleach-what-are-active-ingredients/
For examples of really nasty, yet found-to-be allegedly useful actual weaponized poisons (not to mention the fiendish ways they were tested):
Chlorine dioxide is most certainly a form of bleach. From a chemical company (Nouryon):
“Chlorine dioxide is a preferable bleaching agent used in the production of elemental chlorine-free (ECF) bleached chemical wood pulp.”
It has other uses, like sodium hypochlorite for disinfecting surfaces or treating water (when greatly diluted).
Relatively few people are stupid or suicidal enough to ingest bleach in either form.
Relatively few people are stupid or suicidal enough to ingest mustard gas in either form.
I noticed that you are about 80 years behind. Come back when you have reached this millenium-
Maybe you will have found a new challenge by then, chainik?
I notice that you are 80 years behind. Come baack when you have reached this millenium.
Maybe by then you will have found a new challenge, chainik?