As I wing my way back home from Orlando, fresh from having imbibed deeply of the latest and greatest in cancer research, I didn’t really have the opportunity to generate a typical Orac-ian post. Fortunately for me (or unfortunately, depending on your point of view), a commenter named Erwin Alber popped up in the comments of a year and a half old post to demonstrate once again the self-delusion at the heart of the claim of many in the anti-vaccine movement. Take it away, Erwin:
There is no scientific evidence to show that vaccines have ever prevented anything, apart from health, sanity and common sense. As far as I am concerned, vaccination is an organised criminal enterprise dressed up as disease prevention and people who believe in vaccinations are suffering from brain-washing-induced delusional insanity.
Yep, according to Erwin, those of us who defend the science of vaccines against pseudoscientific, fear mongering attacks by anti-vaccine zealots are not just insane, but brain-washed and delusional. (I suppose the delusional goes along with the insanity.) Not only that, but Erwin truly seems to believe that vaccines have never prevented a single disease and are an “organized criminal enterprise.”
No, Erwin’s not anti-vaccine at all. Oh, no. Neither are the minions who show up regularly on Age of Autism and spew the same sorts of nonsence–or AoA itself, whose editors tolerate–and even encourage–such idiocy in its comments but ruthlessly censor anyone who questions the anti-vaccine party line.
Oh, no, they’re not anti-vaccine at all, not a single one of them.
I will thank Erwin for one thing, though. I found him on Facebook. It’s got to be him, he had listed under music the execrable anti-vaccine one man band The Refusers, as well as links to various homeopathy pages and Let’s Keep Vaccinations Out Of School. More importantly, he’s apparently the founder of an anti-vaccine Facebook page called the Vaccine Information Network. Through Erwin’s Facebook page, I found that two of my Facebook friends were mutual friends of Erwin’s.
I unfriended them.
If I don’t personally know (or at least know through the Internet) a Facebook friend whom I find has friended an anti-vaccine loon, out that Facebook friend goes! True, it might just be a skeptic monitoring the loons (I do the same thing on occasion), but I have no way of knowing that. So, in such a situation, if I don’t recognize the name as a bona fide skeptic (like Peter Bowditch or someone else whom I know or know of), it’s goodbye. In any case, besides providing me with yet another brief post in this particular series, I guess Erwin’s thread necromancy did serve a useful purpose after all.
133 replies on “The annals of “I’m not anti-vaccine,” part 6”
I’m sure the people dying of smallpox will be happy to confirm Erwin is right.
So, um, where are they again?
I suggest Erwin take a tour of Africa and Asia making sure to hit the areas inundated with vaccine preventable diseases. Nothing for him to worry about, right? I encourage Erwin to share utensils, cups and plates with the infected. Live in their homes and clinics. Help care for the dying. If Erwin is vaccinated, he may survive and be thankful. If he’s not, he may have more serious concerns.
That facebook page is a hoot, it got everythings. Chem trails, HIV deniers, and even someone denying the need for a tetanus shot after exposure (just rinse with diluted peroxide and you’ll be fine).
Thank F postings on here are from a small minority and hits on the site are less,as people go elsewhere for more sane information such as AOA ,JABS(recomended by the BBC) ..
KEEP TAKING YOUR VACCINES YOU LOT YOUR ALL KILLING YOURSELVES,JUSt CAN`T COME QUICK ENOUGH!!
Yeah, math is hard, isn’t it?
It looks like English. Seriously, if you want to make a point, write like you managed to get past the 3rd grade.
Maybe the queer fish would like to join dear Erwin on his extended 3rd world tour?
Just ignore the flaming troll.
“Through Erwin’s Facebook page, I found that two of my Facebook friends were mutual friends of Erwin’s.
I unfriended them.”
Whoah! Mistake! I’m currently a Facebook friend with Ken Ham and other creationists, and alternative med gurus, and ufo-cranks, just so that I get the latest whoppers fresh from the source.
If they are not anti-vaccine, then why, pray tell, are their dearly cherished fonts of “information” ( e.g. NVIC, NJCVC) rife with strategies on how to *avoid* vaccinating children? BLF’s site includes a map with state-by-state comparisons ( complete with coded needle icons) on the divers ways that vaccination can be avoided legally. LKH’s site *tells* you what to do and encourages political action to change the *existing* laws in NJ. Similarly, the woo-meisters I follow provide parents with the methodology aforementioned… after first scaring them with horror stories( NaturalNews; vaccineininitiave.com; GaryNull.com, Mercola links to NVIC).
In short, if they’re not anti-vaccine, they sure have a funny way of showing it.
Disclaimer: I have been doing research into my own holdings and have discovered that I truly *am* a PharmaShill- my mutual funds have actually *earned* money based on their pharma investments. Put on the Bowie, let’s dance!
Juha Leinivaara, use a sock for trolling Facebook looks to prevent STDs.
A heads up for all here on a whooping cough outbreak in SW VA:
Tied to a school with a ‘flexible’ vaccination policy.
I can haz my Pharma monees nau, plz?
It’s my general policy. Sorry. If it’s someone I know in another way (as in through blogging), then I make exceptions. (Peter Bowditch, for instance, has a fair number of antivax Facebook friends, and I’m even Facebook friends with Dr. Jay–although given his more recent despicable behavior I’m not sure why any more), but if it’s someone I don’t know in another way…oh, well.
Also note that I don’t do it for all pseudoscience mavens. Creationists haven’t tried to get me fired from my job, for instance. Antivaxers have. Creationists generally don’t threaten me. Animal rights activists do. That’s why I have a much lower threshold for unfriending people linked to antivaxers and ARAs than I do for creationists and homeopaths.
More on Erwin Alber: Erwin Alber and VINE: Intellectually Bankrupt. He apparently thinks a badly drawn graph is legit only because it conforms to his warped view of reality.
Hello, I was wondering if Orac or someone posting in comments could point me to some facts concerning deaths caused by vaccines. I have been in a debate with friends of mine about vaccines and some of them have insisted that people have died from vaccines but I have not been able to find any stats about it either way. Does the U.S. government keep such stats? I never heard of anyone dying of it when I was a child 35 years ago, so why would it be happening now?
Just trying to educate myself.
I am currently pruning my facebook contacts, and I think I’ll start enforcing the same policy as you Orac (actually, I have already started doing so – also shared a couple of contacts with Erwin Alber. No longer the case)
Don, someone was so kind to list all the relevant pages in one comment this weekend.
Millions of dead babies for your enjoyment. The government information is so much less spectacular.
@ donald w: I hope you opened the link provided by N.J. for the latest pertussis outbreak in a small private Virginia school; 23 of the 45 children at the school have been diagnosed with pertussis and 100 % of the cases were not immunized against pertussis.
We aim to please. The U.S. Government does keep some stats about deaths associated with vaccination:
CDC Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Some misconceptions
Please read the entire article about “other misconceptions.”
Former Cutter vaccine nurse
How many does the CDC.gov website say are killed by vaccines every year. It doesn’t say?
Yet it can give you a detailed count, in spreadsheet, form on how many are “associated” with infectious disease. No spreadsheet form for vaccine deaths or disability. It’s a ghost. Oh, it does give some lipservice about a VAERS website that you can go to but It makes sure that you don’t take it very seriously. It goes through great links mentioning several times that any nut can file a vaers claim and that it doesn’t really mean anything. Yet it doesn’t say that because the default of most doctors is to dismiss vaccine reactions because of bias cause under reporting.
In other words it says without saying it that vaccine injury doesn’t exist and/or its worth it to all the other ones you supposedly save.
If your child is ever killed or permanently injured by vaccine not one person on here will console you. In fact, not only will they deny it, they will attack you and play jedi mind tricks on you. The same people who will pretend to care about you and your child when trying to convince you that vaccines are the healthiest thing you could ever do are the same that will turn and attack you showing that they actually don’t care. You are now the enemy.
Informed consent is a facade.
Now your just tiresome & boring – seriously, we’ve got real crazy trolls to scoff at now, you’re just not interesting enough anymore.
Another ad hominem? How tiresome and predictable.
And you still haven’t answered the question on your education.
@9 – Do what I did and create another account for all the quacktastic “friends”.
Augustine, do you have any evidence for the accusations that are being made? Do you have any evidence that vaccine side effects are more severe than what the CDC is telling everyone? Do you have any evidence we’re playing “mind games” with people?
Sorry but compared to OQF, your trolling is minor league. Please up your crazy before posting next time. Your entertainment value has plummeted. Maybe you should include something like “the Bible Code says vaccines are evil” and then move into a “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” bit. Don’t forget to include global warming as well for good measure.
“Jedi mind tricks!!!”
We must be kinder to the antivax trolls; our evil brain manipulations are causing distress.
Part of the problem is that they can’t seem to tell that suggesting that someone is mistaken is different than accusing them of lying. In fact, shouting “I’m not lying!” when you’re only accused of being mistaken feels a bit like shouting “I didn’t do it!” in response to “Did you know he was murdered?”
Clarification: In both cases, there’s a perfectly good reason for an innocent person to say “I’m not lying!” or “I didn’t do it!”, maybe stress or unrelated feelings of guilt. Frankly, I’m not entirely sure how to respond to people who say them, other than to assure them that being on their side doesn’t mean constantly agreeing with everything they say.
It’s really sad that someone who claims to be a Christian like little augie does lies so bluntly.
No one on this blog has ever claimed vaccines are
2)100% safe or
3)supposed to be given to everyone
4)vaccine injury doesn’t exist
If little augie can ever find, without cherry picking, that one of us ever said that, I will apologize for calling him a liar. Until then: Augie, you are a liar.
It seems, based on their “literary style” and readiness to resort to name-calling when asked to support their “arguments”, that “OQF” and “augustine” are most likely males in their teens or early twenties (socially, if not chronologically) who simply want to “stir things up”. I’ve yet to get a cogent (or even rational) argument from “augustine” and I’ve yet to see a grammatically correct sentence from “OQF”.
Given that all they appear to bring to the discussion is noise, I’ve elected to stop reading their posts except to see what nonsense other commenters are referring to (yes, I know that I stranded the preposition, you grammar nazis!).
I know that Orac won’t ban them (unless they get a lot worse), but please let’s not let them hijack the thread of the discussion, even though their feeble attempts at baiting on (rare) occasion rise to the level of (inadvertent) humour.
Permit me to answer on Augietroll’s behalf:
“Evidence? We don’t need no stinkin’ evidence!”
even someone denying the need for a tetanus shot after exposure (just rinse with diluted peroxide and you’ll be fine)
This is a pretty popular one. Just take a left at Anaerobic Street and go shrieking into downtown Crazyville.
@ triskelethecat: Ah, the ultimate challenge. Troll won’t ever answer that question; troll won’t even answer:
Where did YOU go to school?
Where are YOU gainfully employed?
Parent with vaccine injured child: My child was developing normally and after the shot he developed a fever, a shrieking cry, seizures, and later died from further complications
SBMer: No he didnt’
SBMer: That did’t happen
Parent: I saw it with my own eyes.
SBMer: No you didn’t
Parent: I took him to the doctor and he confirmed the neurological diagnosis!
SBMer: How do you know he wouldn’t have had that anyway?
Parent: He was fine before the shot.
SBMer: Maybe you just wanted to believe he was a perfect baby but he really wasn’t developing normally in the first place?
Parent:I know my child
SBMer: Parent’s are biased toward their children. Maybe it was just a coincidence that it happened around the same time as the vaccine.
Parent: I don’t think so. I spoke personally to others and they had they same thing happen to their child. I don’t think it’s coincidental. I know my child.
SBMer: That’s called temporal association. You are confusing correlation with causation. The science does not agree with you. A virus could have caused the same thing and the chance of it happening with a virus are much higher than it happening from a vaccine.
Parent:But I did vaccinate!
SBMer: Oh, well the benefit of vaccinations still outweigh the risks.
Parent: But my child die….
SBMer: The benefits outweigh the risks. If we stop vaccinating then millions will die of vaccine preventable diseases. You are starting to sound like one of those crazy anti-vaccine zealots. You don’t want to be responsible for millions of preventable deaths do you?
SBMer: Well that’s exactly what you’ll be doing if you tell people your child was killed by vaccines and spreading nonsense about vaccines.
Augustine, made-up scenarios don’t count. Try again.
Erwin Albers comments occasionally on NZ science blogs — maybe he follows links from the scienceblogs network. A few months ago he was pimping a couple of century-old German books that purportedly document the nasty side-effects of vaccination:
The books contain a lot of pictures of people with skin conditions. Some of them are identified in the captions as suffering from scrofula, contagious impetigo, syphilis and âvegetating leprosyââ¦ what this had to do with vaccination escaped me. Most are retouched to a greater or lesser extent; some are drawings.
I asked him at the time if he could refer the readers to passages or arguments that he found particularly persuasive (since both texts are printed in that old-style Fraktur typeface that gives me a headache, I wasn’t going to read them straight through). Unfortunately Erwin’s comments tend to be of the drive-by variety rather than genuine attempts to initiate discussion, and this was not one of the occasions when he hung around to reply.
Yeh yeh whiter than white Pharma get them ill and sell thousands of fixes but no cures for the duration of the sad individual stupid enough to take the vaccines..
Vioxx maker Merck and Co drew up a doctor ‘hit list’
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/story-0-1225699594111#ixzz1ImWThBov
WTF are you all web stalking Erwin Albers ?
reportable offence these days,you know!..
Boring troll is boring……
Stupid troll is stupid……
Yes Augustine, I have that very conversation on a daily basis. It’s like you’ve bugged my phone or something. It’s uncanny how you know all our evil pro-vaccine talking points.
Can we get a better class of troll around here, please? Augustine is starting to get extremely boring.
No coercion just like the vaccines the USA has to have or the kids dont get lessons,thats not based on results coercion..
NEW YORK | Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:59am EST
WikiLeaks cables: Pfizer took aim at Nigeria Attorney General
NEW YORK (Reuters) – U.S. drugmaker Pfizer hired investigators to find evidence of corruption against Nigeria’s attorney general to convince him to drop legal action against the company over a drug trial involving children, the Guardian newspaper reported, citing U.S. diplomatic cables made public by WikiLeaks.
Nigeria’s Kano state sued the world’s largest drugmaker in May 2007 for $2 billion over testing of the meningitis drug Trovan. State authorities said the tests killed 11 children and left dozens disabled.
Pfizer and Kano’s state government signed a $75 million settlement on July 30.
Reuters was not able to verify the content of the leaked cables.
In a statement, Pfizer said it “negotiated the settlement with the federal government of Nigeria in good faith and its conduct in reaching that agreement was proper.”
“Any notion that the company hired investigators in connection to the former Attorney General is simply preposterous,” the company said.
The Guardian reported on its website on Thursday that a memo leaked by WikiLeaks referenced a meeting between Pfizer’s country manager, Enrico Liggeri, and U.S. officials suggesting the drug company did not want to pay to settle two cases brought by Nigeria’s federal government. The Guardian linked to the cables on its website, http://www.guardian.co.uk/.
“According to Liggeri, Pfizer had hired investigators to uncover corruption links to federal Attorney General Michael Aondoakaa to expose him and put pressure on him to drop the federal cases,” according to an April 2009 cable from Economic Counselor Robert Tansey of the U.S. Embassy in Abuja, cited in the Guardian report. “He said Pfizer’s investigators were passing this information to local media.”
Aondoakaa was removed from the post of justice minister in February this year by Nigerian President Goodluck Jonathan.
“A series of damaging articles detailing Aondoakaa’s ‘alleged’ corruption ties were published in February and March,” the cable said.
“Liggeri contended that Pfizer had much more damaging information on Aondoakaa and that Aondoakaa’s cronies were pressuring him to drop the suit for fear of further negative articles,” it said.
In 1998, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved Trovan for use by adults only. After reports of liver failure, its use in the United States was restricted to adult emergency care. The European Union banned its use in 1999.
(Reporting by Michel Rose; Editing by Jon Hemming and John Wallace)
Sorry guys just copy and paste been on the vino..
Flu Vaccine Caused 3587 US Miscarriages & Stillbirths
Posted on September 22, 2010 by childhealthsafety
Link to this page http://tinyurl.com/3ydy9zh
CDC alleged to have ignored up to 3,587 Miscarriages from H1N1 Vaccine
A shocking report from the National Coalition of Organized Women (NCOW) presented data from two different sources demonstrating that the 2009/10 H1N1 vaccines contributed to an estimated 1,588 miscarriages and stillbirths. A corrected estimate may be as high as 3,587 cases. NCOW also highlights the disturbing fact that the CDC failed to inform their vaccine providers of the incoming data of the reports of suspected H1N1 vaccine related fetal demise.
Dr. Marie McCormick, chair of the H1N1 Vaccine Risk and Assessment Working Group, said at the 3rd conference-the National Vaccine Advisory Committee (NVAC) that there were absolutely no H1N1 vaccine-related adverse events in pregnant women in 2009/10, directly contradicting the publicly available evidence.
This is not the first time McCormick has done this [see detailed evidence below]. McCormick is hired because, using US tax dollars, she can be relied to do the wrong thing for the American people but the âright thingâ for her bosses. McCormick is a tool of those who hire her.
NCOW collected the data from pregnant women (age 17-45 years) that occurred after they were administered a 2009 A-H1N1 flu vaccine. The raw data is available on the website.
OF COURSE “BELIEVE ME I`M A DOCTOR”…
More Doctors Smoke Camels THAN ANY OTHER CIGARETTE! (Mar, 1946)
113,597 DOCTORS FROM COAST TO COAST WERE ASKED!
According to this recent Nationwide survey:
More Doctors Smoke Camels THAN ANY OTHER CIGARETTE!
This is no casual claim. Itâs an actual fact. Based on the statements of doctors themselves to three nationally known independent research organizations.
THE question was very simple. One that you . .. any smoker . . . might ask a doctor: âWhat cigarette do you smoke, Doctor?â
After all, doctors are human too. Like you, they smoke for pleasure. Their taste, like yours, enjoys the pleasing flavor of costlier tobaccos. Their throats too appreciate a cool mildness.
And more doctors named Camels than any other cigarette!
If you are a Camel smoker, this preference for Camels among physicians and surgeons will not surprise you. But if you are not now smoking
Camels, try them. Compare them in your âT-Zone.â
This is no casual claim. It’s an actual fact.
Unless you document it, it’s merely a magazine advertising slogan. At least the Lucky Strike ad that this reprised claimed to have been “checked and certified by Lybrand, Ross Bros and Montgomery,” a pretty mealy-mouthed claim of itself.
WTF are you all web stalking Erwin Albers ?
It’s almost as if he was the topic of the post.
#29, Prometheus, I also rarely read the trolls posts these days. In the past I used to make an effort but it is just the same stuff every time and so pointless. Generally I just read the responses and if I need some clarification I might go back. I know I could use a killfile but I like to have that ease of access if I want to read one of the comments. Besides, I can scroll past with ease.
“This is no casual claim. It’s an actual fact.”
It might actually be a fact. Why not? Of all the doctors who smoked, presumably there was some type of cigarette that a plurality smoked. Similarly, of the doctors who scuba dive, there must be a location where a plurality dive. That proves nothing about whether scuba diving in general, or scuba diving in that location is good, bad, or indifferent for your health.
And I imagine the Camels did have a pleasing flavor. No doubt the manufacturer worked hard to make it so. I understand antifreeze also has a good flavor, which is why it’s a hazard to dogs.
OQF: “And more doctors named Camels than any other cigarette!”
Wow. The fish can’t tell the difference between an advertisement and a real paper.
Or it has decided that I was correct when I said the tobacco companies posted lying ads to counter the science that was coming to light in the 1940s and 1950s:
It might actually be a fact. Why not?
It might be, but that’s not the point of the advertisement or, certainly, of bringing it up, which is to conflate 113,597 (which would be 68% of the 165,629 “physicians and surgeons” tallied in the 1946 Statistical Abstract) with the actual number of doctors who then responded, smoke, and prefer Camel.
Why thank you! Who do you think taught him the finer points of canine stomping? It’s one of the prerequisites to join the Evil Big Pharma school of science (i.e. an accredited university that actually teaches science). MWAHAHAHAHAHA. You aren’t part canine per chance, are you?
Using Google to find out what else a blog commenter has written doesn’t rise to the legal definition of stalking. (Or, if it does, that’s one incredibly badly written law)
Nor does remembering previous encounters with him.
“my way back home from Orlando, fresh from having imbibed deeply of the latest and greatest in cancer research”
Did that reasearch include Vitmain C injections, Graviola, cat’s Claw, selenium, Vitmain D, Indole-3-carbinol, Coriolus versicolor (Trametes versicolor), Maitake (Grifola frondosal), Proteolytic enzymes, Astragales (Astragalus membranaceus), Curcumin, noni, Milk Thistle , Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA), Green Tea , Olive Leaf Extract, 7-Keto , Flaxseed Oil , Calcium, citrus pectin, Colostrum, resveratrol, etc?
Or did your research only confine itself to radiation and chemo and treatments designed to keep making big pahrma money rather than finding an actual cure that works?
Did it also inclde what foods to avoid like SUGAR and refined foods? Cancer, like candida and fungus, feeds on sugar. Did they teach that in med school? Somethings you have to learn on your own research.
Don’t even think about it. I’ll call my brother medicine Man.
Fancy meeting *you* here!
I am afraid, my dear friend, that there may perhaps be a more than a grain of truth in our opponents’ criticism:
we are truly international ( tho’ biased US,UK,CAN,AUS)
we are educated and/or employed by *elite* institutions
we often study little-known information
we share an arcane network of communications
we share the same aims and goals
we frequent the same virtual space ( where we pass like electrons in the night)
we have an “in group” and “an out group”
we share in-jokes and verbal mannerisms
we share news and information
we seek to influence public opinion
we are in league.
Yes, it is a dark business indeed.
Don’t even think about it. I’ll call my brother medicine Man.
Does this even refer to something here?
So, “Doctor Smart”, what evidence do you have that any of your remedies work? Surely you can answer such a simple question, right?
Micheal Vick is a scientist? No wonder people have such a low and brow raising view of scientists these days. You’re not helping your pink cause.
Micheal [sic] Vick is a scientist? No wonder people have such a low and brow raising view of scientists these days. You’re not helping your pink cause.
Augustine, you’ve been replaced. Move on before somebody calls security.
Let me dumb it down for you: Evil big pharma = so evil that they encourage animal torture (see Sean Michael on previous thread). Poodle = Big Pharma shill b/c he understands the science behind vaccines. Thus, Poodle = knowledgeable in methods of torturing animals and taught it to Vick. Get it? It was sarcasm, by the way…you know, in case you missed that, too. Nowhere did I say that Vick was a scientist.
I searched FB and at first I pulled up a guy by the name of Albers (with an “s”) who looked just like Slash, the guitarist. I thought, that guy is way too cool to be him; I searched again, this time spelling the name right, and lo and behold, your Mr. Alber and I had a friend in common! This was a guy whose friend request I accepted, and then I hid his posts for some reason which I have long since forgotten. Generally, when that happens it’s because someone has posted something irritating, but not sufficiently irritating enough to make me unfriend. So I noodle over to his page, and discover he’s an Illuminati New World Order 911 Truther. Unfriended.
I’ve long had a policy of accepting any friend request, and unfriending if weirdness ensues. I may have to rethink that policy. May be time for a purge . . .
@ Gay falcon
What evidence do you have that they don’t? People do these things everyday. Vitamin C injections directly into the tumor has been effective in a number of cases. All of these that I mention has some effect on cancer. i am not calling it a cure, but I also do not call chemo (poison) a cure either. Sometimes people stand abetter chance of survial staying away from these dangerous treatments and going with natural remedies and cures. Graviola is a very potent cancer fighter and is not as dangerous or expensive as chemo. Some allergic reactions have occured with Graviola, but I have never heard of someone dying from it like chemo.
The same goes for all other methods I mentioned. Chemo is deadly and rarely provides permanent success.
What’s your excuse?
“Smart”, I didn’t ask for claims, I asked for evidence. For example, do you have a thoroughly-documented case of Vitamin C injections working against cancer better than the established methods, or just your say-so? Why should we believe you?
Gary Falcon, do you have any evidence that your god exists? I didn’t think so. Why should I believe that you are an evidence based person?
@Doctor Maxwell Smart:
Thanks for your URL link; now I won’t have to worry about burning in hell any more.
My gratitude is eternal.
Graviola is a very potent cancer fighter and is not as dangerous or expensive as chemo. Some allergic reactions have occured with Graviola, but I have never heard of someone dying from it like chemo.
Thank goodness it’s NOT a POIZONN!
Ah, trying to change the subject rather than answer questions. Never mind that theological discussions are a matter of faith, medical discussions one of reality. This thread isn’t even about cancer, you aren’t even worth bothering with.
Correction: Never mind that theological discussions are a matter of faith, medical discussions one of physical reality.
So, the man puts all kinds of opinions out for the public to read on the internet, and invites comment and sharing of those opinions, but anyone who does either of those things is stalking him? Oh, dear. But that is the antivaccine definition, isn’t it: Any mention or comment that doesn’t agree with what I like to see.
Correction: Never mind that theological discussions are a matter of faith, medical discussions one of physical reality.
Well, if you’re going to do that, monist materialism is not strictly required.
Doctor I.M. Smart/Medicien Man/Televisionless Conservative:
I am not related to “ChrisKid.” The name “Chris” is very common. Plus you are either still a complete idiot or in need of some serious psychiatric attention.
I think that if Erwin has not been vaccinated when he was sucking thumbs, he may have been limping due to polio today. Tell him to speak to people who have polio and ask them how they feel about it.
you are either still a complete idiot or in need of some serious psychiatric attention.
Those are not mutually exclusive, no need for the either/or statement.
[Not a]Dr I.m [Not] Smart said:
“What evidence do you have that they don’t? People do these things everyday. Vitamin C injections directly into the tumor has been effective in a number of cases. All of these that I mention has some effect on cancer. i am not calling it a cure, but I also do not call chemo (poison) a cure either. Sometimes people stand abetter chance of survial staying away from these dangerous treatments and going with natural remedies and cures. Graviola is a very potent cancer fighter and is not as dangerous or expensive as chemo. Some allergic reactions have occured with Graviola, but I have never heard of someone dying from it like chemo.
The same goes for all other methods I mentioned. Chemo is deadly and rarely provides permanent success.
What’s your excuse? ”
Ah, so right out the bat you try to shift the burden of proof by trying to get others to disprove your wild claims. I plan to attempt a post similar to yours but using ‘Batman’ instead to make similarly odd arguments which are really just your premises restated in different words.
Batman solves crime! What’s your proof that he doesn’t? It is well known that large doses of the Batman lead to a reduction in crime and an increase in general well-being, unlike the poisonous Punisher who is well known for harming individuals and for doing more damage than the original criminals. Yes the Batman has caused a certain amount of carnage over the years but nothing in any way comparable to that wrought by The Punisher. The Punisher is paid for by corrupt big-hero companies and uses nasty artificial things like bullets. Conversely, The Batman uses things like Batarangs which are natural and healthy.
P.S It’s time for you to go now Augustine… we’ve got new trolls and they’re showing the sort of vim that you stopped displaying a long time ago.
Agreed – it was fun poking the hornets’ nest for a while, but this one is all out. Same old tired stuff over and over again.
I demand that “Dr.” Stupid prove that playing Dragon Age II is not a cure for all forms of cancer.
Should he actually come up with something, I intend to shift the goalposts by asserting that it only works if Hawke is a Rogue, or something like that.
Dr I M Smart:
I’ve never been in med school; I’m learning on “my own research”, then. Just like you. 😉
Cancer definitely does feed on sugar. So does yeast. So does fungus. So do normal human cells, which is why intravenous feeding involves glucose. Because of this, avoiding sugars entirely will certainly kill the cancer. The side effect is rather unfortunate, though — it also kills the patient.
One Queer Fish:
Yeah, Camel was pretty thorough in their advertising — and they knew people (who aren’t actually as stupid as they’re often made out to be) were beginning to catch on that smoking was often associated with crappy lungs later on. So they found a fairly obvious way to fight that impression — say that doctors smoke! If doctors smoke, why, then it MUST be good! And this brand in particular! It’s not that much different from “9 out of 10 dentists recommend
” when it’s a logical impossibility for that to be true of every toothpaste making that claim. Doctors were also seen as paragons of wisdom and virtue in the 1940s, so they were a logical character to use in this.
The otherwise excellent 1951 film “The Day the Earth Stood Still” (directed by the illustrious Robert Wise and starring Michael Rennie) even had a brief scene in which a couple of military physicians are seen to share a pack of cigarettes. Brand was not obvious; this was before major product placement efforts, and I’m certain it was just to give them a bit of business. (In the technical sense. “Business” means some activity which fills out the scene, sometimes improvised, but usually worked out in rehearsal rather than in the script. It saves actors from just reciting lines at each other and makes things appear more natural.)
But you should trust your Doctor. Oh yes. 😉 Only sixteen more days to go!
Trust me, I’m the Doctor
Weren’t they talking about how quickly the subject was healing and how advanced the alien medical technology must be? Making the scene rather funny in hindsight. One always wonders if early driving advice included “Have a drink or two to calm the nerves before driving.”
Regardless, medical science marches on, much to the consternation of science fiction writers. “What do you mean, liquid heat is impossible?”
Yep, that’s correct! They were discussing the strange pills that Klaatu took, after which he recuperated beautifully without their assistance, and the revelation that he was over twice the age they’d guessed. It’s a very odd scene when observed with modern sensibilities.
I do know that not all doctors of the period approved of cigarettes. My grandfather, for instance, was staunchly against them throughout his entire life. He actually was a military physician. Trained as a general surgeon, he served in field hospitals on the Pacific front in WWII, and again in Korea. He wasn’t into sci-fi, so I doubt he ever saw “Day the Earth Stood Still” to give his impression of that scene. I doubt he would have approved.
My other grandfather is also a lifelong nonsmoker. Serving in the infantry in Europe in WWII, he found visceral evidence that smoking kills when a sniper took out a soldier, aiming for the glow of his cigarette. (Thinking back, I don’t remember if he said it was a German soldier shot by his team or one of his buddies shot by a German. Either way, deciding to light up during a nighttime patrol was obviously not a good decision under the circumstances.)
So do normal cells (especially neurons). If you avoid eating sugar altogether, your body will simply make glucose via a process called gluconeogenesis. Either way, provided you are living (and not diabetic, ect…), your blood sugar should remain fairly stable and those mean lil’ cancer cells will have just as much sugar available on average.
Actually, the stupid anti-vaxers got their wish. They claimed that if “herd immunity is so important, why aren’t we seeing outbreaks in low-vax areas?” Well, that’s exactly what happened in MN & Roanoke, VA – that’s two well documented outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases in low or no vaccinated populations.
Thanks a lot morons.
Lawrence was it bad sanitation?
Kids I know from this area have caught chicken pox ,the lot and are the brightest kids for miles and have never been vaccinated infact one is 3 years ahead of his peers and his brother is 2 years ahead,its no coincidence as I know of 4 other unvaccinated kids and they are all ahead..in all developments.
Mind you mercury and virus`s just what the brain needs to process quicker and retain knowlege..brain rot I think the term is.Assuming you still have live brain matter left after vaccination..
it looks like OQF is from Aus with their casual refrencing of news.com.au
i might just have to move to NZ (shudder) 🙂
LOL stupid troll – learn better grammar & try again. At least your crazy rants are funny, as opposed to our old variety of troll that is now just dull.
Keep posting, we all need a good laugh at your expense – and you’re so good at being stupid, you could be giving lessons.
Vaccines never prevented anything? Ironic then:
First case of measles in Utah since 2005. 6 years, not a single case, the teenager hasn’t traveled.
Calli: “The otherwise excellent 1951 film “The Day the Earth Stood Still” (directed by the illustrious Robert Wise and starring Michael Rennie) even had a brief scene in which a couple of military physicians are seen to share a pack of cigarettes.”
Reminds me of Doc Cottle from Battlestar Galactica; he would smoke while treating patients. 🙂
Chris (#15) posted a blog entry so beautiful and brilliant it deserves reposting. Those of us on VINE’s facebook page that day got more than a few chuckles.
@ gay falcon
You have a brain and you are an independent sovereign soul. Look it up for yourself and prove me wrong. or, are you scared of what you will find if you do? Of course natutal news is a laugh to you, but there wa an article there today not written by Mike Adams whom you people like to secretly admire. The article was about a study that indicated intraveous Vitamin C has proven effective on killer some types of cancer. Also, you sgoogle Vitamin C intravenous cancer, see what you get. It’s not that hard to read things for yourself and be an independent sovereign person instead of part of the brainwashed “collective”.
If being unvaccinated makes you so brilliant, why can’t you figure out punctuation? Rules like “When you have finished expressing one thought and wish to express a new thought, end your sentence with a period and start a new sentence” are not so very complicated. If you could learn to punctuate properly, perhaps your writing could at long last be intelligible to others.
In any case, saying “I know six very bright kids who are unvaccinated and that proves that unvaccinated kids are brighter than vaccinated kids” is nonsense. One might as well say “I just saw six fast blue cars whizzing by; it proves that blue cars are faster than red cars.” Even if you were the most sagacious and unbiased observer in the world (and frankly, the suggestion that you even qualify for either of those adjectives is pretty laughable) it’s still the height of absurd nonsense for you to purport that you can construct a valid comparison between Group A and Group B based on six members of Group A and zero of B.
Lay off the crystal meth dude
Understanding what you read appears to be impossible for you Mr. I.M. Stunned.
“Smart”, if you can’t answer what you consider a foolish question, that makes you a fool of a fool. Don’t just insinuate your answers, point out where it is. You are intelligent enough to do that, right?
By the way, “Smart”, I did Google “Vitamin C intravenous cancer” like you suggested. Here’s one of the results, at least one from someone who wasn’t selling Vitamin C IVs:
Everyone else had that whole “conflict of interest” thing going for them, being people who made money off of the treatment. In other words, shills for Big Natura.
@ Calli Arcale
OT: Oh, that brings back memories. I learned that from a comics in my country back in the 80’s. Apparently there was a saying among WWI/WWII veterans: never light 3 cigarettes in a row from the same match.
The match gives a brighter flare as it is used to light the cigarette. So the sniper would get his bearings on the first flare, take aim on the second, and, well, shot on the third.
So the troll’s a homophobe too. Why am I not surprised?
There was a British (oh, so terribly British) movie back in the 80’s called Bullshot, a spoof of pulp adventure. It was OK, but probably won’t make anyone’s Top Ten lists.
Anyway, there was one flashback scene where Hugh “Bullshot” Crummond is in the trenches (I’m guessing it was WWI, in this case), explaining this rule as he lights cigarettes for three other guys from the same match. As he walks away, the third man gets shot…
As another fun WWII-smoking anecdote, my grandfather did like cigarettes for a completely different reason. He’d trade the cigarettes in his C-rations for candy bars. 😉 (Either this or the fact that guys in my family are late bloomers is why he was the only one in his group of recruits that actually gained weight during his service.)
Most of the stories he tells more than once revolve around the C-rations. His favorite was about a little French girl whom he defied orders to help. She was starving, and wordlessly begging for food. (He didn’t speak French, and she didn’t speak English.) He sat her down on a log, gave her his rations, and watched her inhale the whole thing. His captain came over and chewed him out (not supposed to encourage begging, lest the camp be overrun by beggars). My grandfather took his service revolver out and laid it on a tree stump. He said, “Fine, you can court martial me, but only after she’s done eating.” As the girl gobbled up the food, the captain remarked, “She’s really hungry, isn’t she.” When she was done, all three of them left without a word, and my grandfather never heard another thing about it.
To drag us back on topic…. My maternal grandfather grew up with some strange medical views. His parents dabbled in Christian Science for a while, and tended to be anti-establishment. They were not happy that he joined the military, for instance. His enthusiasm for modern medicine may be partly a reaction to that upbringing. He gets his annual flu shots; he’s had the shingles vaccine. I think if there were vaccines against more things that an old person was likely to get, he’d go get those vaccines as well.
Doc Cottle from Battlestar Galactica smoking is actually, I’d say, quite deliberate. The audience is meant to learn that the medical knowledge in the BSG world is not even close to where our own is.
I thoroughly enjoyed “Bullshot” and recall laughing the rest of the evening after watching it the first time. It was inspired silliness.
@ gay falcon
Suit yourself. I’ll stick to Vitamin C’s proven effectiveness, you stick to poison and radiation. may both of us be happy. Better luck next time.
Mayo clinic? Seriously? That’s the best you could do? Now try looking it up on a site that is not biased towards big pharma.
“Smart”, by proven effectiveness, do you mean they observed it carefully and measured it against the effectiveness of conventional treatment? Or did they just ignore every problem and attribute every improvement to the treatment? Humans are fallible, and to learn, one must be humble enough to accept that one is capable of error and bias. Most scientists do so, and this is how they are able to learn so much.
I say they are cocky arrogant pricks just like lawyers, doctors, gamblers, pro athletes, or any other profession. Do you have any evidence sans anecdotes that they have higher adherence to ethical and moral standards than any other ordinary citizen or profession?
No you don’t.
Look in any scientific journal. If scientists were as arrogant as you say they are (and I use the term in a very specific way), they wouldn’t go around testing their hypotheses, they’d just be declaring how brilliant they are for coming up with an idea and insist it’s right, no matter what. You know, like “Doctor Smart”.
Exactly. No evidence. Just a rhetorical statement.
If lawyers were as arrogant then they wouldn’t test their arguments in a court of law. They would just walk out of the courtroom with their client.
So if a scientist tests his hypothesis then he has absconded himself from ego?
All published scientist therefore are humble as pie, meek little servants with the utmost standards and adherence of ethics and morals.
I could point out any number of published studies that determined a hypothesis was incorrect. Maybe somebody else here could provide an example?
Exactly. They might take pride in understanding that they know the law, but they know that they are not perfect, and that trials must take place.
No, just hubris.
I wouldn’t go that far, but they are better than you are.
So if a scientist tests his hypothesis then he has absconded himself from ego?
“Abscond” is intransitive, Augustine. What I’m actually curious about, though, is what you mean by “ego.”
Boring troll has advanced to the “idiot” phase – repeating blown past arguments “ad infinitum.”
Seriously, get a grip – you’ve become a boor & don’t interest us anymore. Go away & come back when you can bring some truly crazy – otherwise, you’ve just wasted our bandwith.
cocky arrogant pricks just like lawyers, doctors, gamblers, pro athletes, or any other profession.
I am saddened by so much cynicism and misanthropy in one so young.
The troll provides us with some amusement with its crazy rants. It hangs around here to stick its nose into intelligent discussions. Probably less risky than prowling shopping malls and hanging around street corners annoying shoppers and pedestrians.
Troll possibly has some masochistic tendencies as well…it keeps coming back for the intellectual drubbing it gets, each and every time it posts.
Troll needs a job but is unqualified because it has no education or skills and is lazy as well. Troll is well qualified to stay on the dole.
@gay falcon who muttered “Humans are fallible, and to learn, one must be humble enough to accept that one is capable of error and bias. Most scientists do so, and this is how they are able to learn so much.”
If that were treu there would be several hundred “scientists” and European marxist elites in prison right now for the largest scam in human history – climate change!
Do you know who got this so called climate change hoax started? The Club of Rome! In 1993, they published a paper called “The First Global Revolution” that basically outlined the use of the environment as a means to redistribute and help creat their global government. Global warming is all about power, control, and wealth redistribution and has zero to do with actual climate. Everyone involved should be charged with fraud and thrown in solitary for the rest of their life.
Look this paper up and read it for yourself. The whole thing is a well planned marxist bullshit scam that should be punished.
So called “scientitists” were studying climate long before this fascist control freak radical group published that deserves to be burned paper of theirs. However, it was The Club Of Rome that got the ball rolling on people stealing our wealth in the name of a worldwide hoax.
Then again, people who believe they are related to monkeys are easily duped.
Do you know who got this so called climate change hoax started? The Club of Rome!
And who do you think is behind this site? That’s right, you’ve got a new gig as Bilderboytoy coming right up behind you. Leave a note on the off chance that anyone who notices your absence responds with anything but relief.
Club of Rome? 1993? They’re a bit late to the party.
Bit hard for John Tyndall to be a Marxist – he published his observations on greenhouse gases in 1859 – 8 years *before* Das Kapital hit the shops. Don’t know anything about Arrhenius’ political leanings in 1896. And we know, absolutely and for certain that Gilbert Plass published his papers in 1956 and 1959 on greenhouse and carbon dioxide from an obvious bias *against* any such political leanings.
“Doctor Smart”, as a fellow Christian and brother in the faith, I will address you with all the kindness I would give my own brother in this situation. You’re an idiot.
I am not talking about carbon dioxide. It is natural. it comes from volcanoes and ocean vents and of course from us too, but man’s carbon output is barely even visible in comparison to natural occuring carbon dioxide.
I am talking about using that greenhouse gas scientific fact as a way to gain power and control. They could have used a gigantic asteroid threat just the same. The fact remains that we have been duped and now it’s jail time from these goobers.
Who cares about 1800s gases? We are talking about a group, socialists, who use facts and exploit them and blow them up out of proportion in order to fund their entire quest of power and global governance. haven’t you been reading the news? How much money do we spend on this crap overseas? I say cut it. Cut the UN, cut, the IMF, cut the World Bank, cut the FED, and let’s get back to the real world. Cut these dmons from out money trail and use it wisely and frugally here at home where it belongs instead of funding some goober’s thirst for wealth redistribution in Europe. To hell with Europe. They are so far gone down the crapper, that they can never return back to normal again. Let’s pray we never go down their path of tyranny.
As for global warming, I say in the budget cut proposals, we strip money from any individual, group, campus, organization, country or anything in existsnce that even mentions climate change. That should take care of thei wealth redistribution bullcrap and shut them up too.
dim @ 114:
“Unemployment in Germany is already at its lowest level since the country reunified in 1990 but the buoyant economy is poised to drive down jobless lines further, with the rate seen at 6.9 this year and 6.5 percent in 2012.”
The problem you have is that you honestly believe the people who tell you what to think are truthful. But we have shown those people to be actively misleading you. Your anger is a function of your deeply hidden fear that we are right and you have wasted your life. This also explains the brain-damaged posts on your blog.
So run away, little dim one, Facts are not your friends!
We are talking about a group, socialists, who use facts and exploit them and blow them up out of proportion in order to fund their entire quest of power and global governance.
You are a goddamned idiot.
pD, I want to praise you for the succinct and appropriate reply. It is a nice follow-up to NJ’s post.
He’s not my kind of Christian either. Sounds like he has been reading too many “conspiracy” blogs; also sounds like an anarchist.
As Stephen Colbert said “Reality has a liberal bias”
[email protected] – Mr. I.M. Stunned wouldn’t know a fact if it bit him on the ass.
I wonder: how can you be that stupid and still manage to swallow without aspiration?
Is this one of the “European Marxist elites” you’re so concerned about?
Retired sociopathic nurse lady
The only one who engages in intelligent discussion on here is Passionless Drone.
You have the perception of amusement because you are sitting in the stands as a heckling spectator. An arm chair quarterback. A skeptic wannabe.
Just like the loudmouth in the stands, you can’t do it alone by yourself in the stadium. You require the fuel from your fellow wannabe skeptic spectators. You are an entertainer performing for your crowd, just like all of the other SBM hecklers.
At the end of the day you’re just the local county nurse with delusions of grandeur.
Local county nurse knows a lot more than home schooled teenager. Sorry but couldn’t let the troll have the last post.
And you’re the King of Your Mother’s Basement.
Okay, this has been bothering me for a while, so here goes: If you’re going to say anything about augustine, say things that we can at least determine from seeing him online. Insults like that are childish and unproductive. More acceptable insults: Stupid, childish, arrogant, stupid, hateful, spiteful, stupid, Randian, stupid, and stupid.
You forgot ignorant.
You also forgot innumerate. Here we see the troll ignorantly asking, “Does it really matter how many 9s after 4 decimal places?” when challenged on its assertion that measles patients survived without sequelae 99.9999+% of the time.
Don’t forget hypocrite.
How else could one describe a “Christian” person constantly resorting to childish and churlish taunts and ad hominems?
Also, do not forget misogynist.
Ah yes, how could I forget those… I must be slipping.
A few more: pompous, logorrheic (and no, words don’t count if you don’t know what they mean), sociopathic, vacuous, relentlessly boring, isolated, creepy, and stupid.
Did anyone mention stupid?
The sort of idiot who thinks that Thesaurus killed the dinosaur.
Yo, useless, how’re the kids?
Hey you do know that is takes someone else, right?
(On second thought, Let’s say nothing.)
But on the plus side…………………
@ Gray Falcon: I doubt *you’d* ever slip! But, even if you did, never fear: you will be assisted _immediately_ by the “hand of the dark blog-osphere”** and its many fingers ( a/k/a minions).
** i.e. Orac. A new – and somewhat creative- appellation by someone who doesn’t like us very much.