Complementary and alternative medicine Medicine Naturopathy Quackery

A trifecta of naturopathic woo

Yesterday, I wrote a rather lengthy post about germ theory denialism. As I put it, yes, there really are people who don’t accept the germ theory of disease. As part of my Orac-ian length discussion (well over 4,000 words), I had a bit of fun with a video done by a hapless (is there any other kind?) naturopath named “Dr. Shawn.” Our new buddy Dr. Shawn laid down a heapin’ helpin’ of napalm-grade burning stupid in the form of only the finest germ theory denialism coupled with some truly brain dead analogies, not to mention a whole lot of hating on swamps. Last night, exhausted by an even longer than usual post, I felt like slumming a bit more with Dr. Shawn; so I decided to check out a bit of the rest of his website, which is the website of the Whole Body Healing Center of Lewisville. After all, Dr. Shawn is a naturopath, and naturopathy is nothing but a one stop shop for all things woo. Consistent with the nature (if you’ll excuse the term) of naturopathy, Dr. Shawn’s website is, as we say in the skeptic biz, a “target-rich environment” indeed.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Dr. Shawn offers the infamous detox foot bath. As I’ve described before, detox foot baths are pure nonsense; the water changes color regardless of whether you put your feet in it or not because of electrolysis, not because the bath is doing anything to suck toxins out of your body through the soles of your feet. I have a basic rule of thumb when it comes to “alt-med” practices in which I divide them into two groups: a group that offer the detox foot bath and a group that don’t. If there’s a single accurate indicator of pure quackery, in my not-so-humble opinion, it’s when a practice actually charges money for detox foot baths. When I broaden my criteria, another such criterion is selling and promoting homeopathy.

Uh, oh. Sorry, Dr. Shawn:

At the Whole Body Healing Center, we specialize in homeopathic remedies, herbal and nutritional supplements, and wellness programs. Each client has a tailor-made, specialized wellness program that is completely holistic.

Yep. Shawn’s into homeopathy:

Let our Naturopath make you a specific homeopathic remedy. Shawn, our Naturopath, has health and wellness visits for $45.00. This appointment will be a 20 minute visit. He will do a quick scan to customize a remedy for you. Try something natural before you go medical. Give us a call today and schedule an appointment.

So what else does that leave. As I said before, if there’s one thing that screams quackery to me, it’s detox foot baths. If there are two things that scream quackery to me, they would be detox foot baths and homeopathy. If there are three things that scream quackery to me, they would be detox footbaths, homeopathy, and…the Quantum QXCI/SCIO. Oh, yes, I’m talking about that Quantum QXCI/SCIO machine, a woo machine supreme created by the exceedingly flamboyand quack supreme, Bill Nelson, the one quack I’ve ever seen who explains his woo with epic song and dance routines. Get a load of what Dr. Shawn’s practice claims that the QXCI/SCIO can do:

The body scan is a device that scans the body energetically. By that I mean it is reading the body’s meridian system that was developed many years ago by Chinese acupuncturist. Acupuncture is the most accurate medical science in the world. It has been around for over 5000 years.

The quantum is taking today’s technology and combining it with the science of acupuncture.

Too hilarious, particularly since this particular woo machine looks very much like a hyped up Scientology E-meter. Don’t believe me? Just look at this brochure. There’s an electric box with various inputs. My first thought upon looking at this machine was: Serial ports? That’s so…1990s. Come on. It’s all USB now. But, hey, what do I know. If you believe the brochure, you’ll believe that this rather cheap looking box of whatever electronics can be thrown together after a visit to Radio Shack will diagnose the following within five minutes:

  • Food Sensitivities
  • Nutritional Deficiencies
  • Spinal / Cranial Sacral
  • Dental / TMJ
  • Adrenal Function
  • Environmental Factors-utilizes a complete Three Dimensional Loop
  • Hormone Levels.
  • Mental Energy
  • Organ Function
  • Hydration / Oxygenation
  • Acid / Alkaline Balance
  • Toxicities – exposure to excess chemicals, heavy metals / mercury
  • Trauma (damage) – includes physical, psychological, emotional, spiritual
  • Pathogens – bacteria, fungi, viruses, parasites
  • Homeopathic Therapy
  • Allergy Testing & Desensitization
  • Meridian Therapy / Electro-Acupuncture
  • Chakra Balancing
  • Weight Loss Therapy
  • Risk Profile Analysis
  • Anti-Aging Therapy
  • Emotional Release
  • Auto-Frequency Therapy
  • Color Therapy
  • Electrodermal Screening

I’m surprised they didn’t throw in curing cancer. Of course, Bill Nelson did, but maybe Dr. Shawn has a bit more restraint than that.

But the QXCI/SCIO is so much more than just a fantastic diagnostic machine. It does so much more, if you believe Dr. Shawn. But how, you ask, does this fantastic machine work? How do you think? How do nearly all woo machines work? How do you think? How does nearly every woo machine work? We’re talking quantum, baby:

As the SCIO has been devised using the principles of Quantum Physics, that question is easier asked than answered. Basically, during treatment, the SCIO measures the body’s resonance/reactance pattern and determines what benefit has occurred in the time period since the last measurement (less than a second earlier). If there has not been an improvement, the input resonance is altered. It maintains each beneficial setting as long as it is helping and changes it as soon as it is no longer useful.

Somehow that’s not what I learned about quantum theory during college. In fact, it’s not what anyone who’s learned about quatnum theory during college has learned. Of course, the answer to everything is quantum, as many naturopaths will tell you. You don’t have to understand what quantum means, nor do you have to have the slightest understanding of quantum theory. Just throw the word “quantum” around, and the marks will believe you.

Perusing Dr. Shawn’s website, I get the distinct feeling that I’m in the wrong business. After all, here I am, with no control over what is collected for my patient care services, with Medicare and third party payors constantly trying to ratchet down what they pay physicians and surgeons for their services. Then I see Dr. Shawn, with a price list like this one for his naturopathic packages or this one for the various products offered by his practice. Just check out the Gold Detox Package:

  • 1 Office visit with Shawn
  • 1 Heart Screening with DPA
  • 1 Complete body scan with Shawn
  • 1 Complete 21-detox program
  • 6 Detox Therapies your choice
  • 1 Complete Thermography Screening for Breast Health
  • Pay Online and Save almost 10% ($860.00)

Talk about righteous bucks for very little work. Of course, Dr. Shawn also charges $150 per hour for a telephone consultation. How much can I charge for a telephone consultation? Nothing. Who says woo doesn’t pay?

But what else does Dr. Shawn offer? Well, as Kim Wombles points out, he also claims that his QXCI/SCIO can treat autistic children. Of course. It also apparently “diagnoses vaccine injury” as well.

Still not convinced of the power of Dr. Shawn’s woo? Do you still doubt just how deep he’s willing to delve into detox foot baths, homepathy, and Quantum SCIO silliness? Doubt no further, because you will find solid evidence on many of the pages of Dr. Shawn’s website that should erase all doubts:

Information on this web site is not intended to replace any medical treatment prescribed by your physician. For those with chronic medical problems or taking a regularly prescribed medication, please consult your physician.

Yes, indeed. It’s the Quack Miranda.

And I haven’t even mentioned Dr. Shawn’s partner, Gary Tunsky, yet. He’s a naturopath too and could easily be the topic of his very own post. I’m too tired to take it on now.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

70 replies on “A trifecta of naturopathic woo”

My local chiropractor, who I’ve blogged about, is an interesting mix of Asian philopsophy and other things. His latest advertorial used an argument with amazing (to me) parallels to what I’d expect from a fundamentalist Christian to justify vitalism. He even cited the emergent properties of jumbo jet aircraft screed! I guess once you start with one of these things, you collect the others…

The SCIO/QXCI scans the client’s body like a virus-scan on a computer, looking for everything from viruses, deficiencies, weaknesses, allergies, abnormalities and food sensitivities.

Yes, but can it reformat your boot sector?

Wait one gosh-darned minute!

Try something natural before you go medical.

Followed by…

Acupuncture is the most accurate medical science in the world.


Than again, what does it matter? We’re all living in a computer simulation anyway. (Maybe.)

Yes, but can it reformat your boot sector?

And if it does reformat your boot sector, do you still need the detoxifying foot bath?

To be fair, the SCIO probably *does* accurately diagnose “homeopathic therapy” and “chakra balancing” in that anyone who believes in the SCIO enough to pay attention to it has probably gone the homeopathic and chakra routes as well.

Speaking of woo….

I went to a local drug store with my husband the other day. Besides the standard Band-Aids and toothbrushes, they have an enormous homeopathy section, as well as enough vitamins and supplements to choke an elephant on the binders and fillers.

We stood there, amazed at the wall o’ woo, as I called it, taking in what appeared to be hundreds of tiny vials of sugar pills infused with the serial dilutions of various tinctures. A placard on the wall explained how homeopathy works (based on the principle that like attracts like, these will draw impurities out….) with a list of people that worked at the drugstore that were “Certified homeopathy practitioners.”

The stupid, it burns.

My husband asked what the numbers and C stood for. I told him. He looked at a vial with an incredulous look on his face, and then put the vial away as if it had burned his fingers.

I told him that I wasn’t entirely sure, but I believe he could not catch the stupid from handling a vial.

He told me that he would rather have a bag of saline and a 14G for anything than take part in that stupidity.

For years my SO has brought me a local new agey magazine ( actually, it’s 75% advert and 25% “info-tisement”- i.e. articles promoting woo or practitioners), called “Inner Realm”. I very cautiously postulate that there is an inverse ratio between the number of “services” offered and the degree of reality- based “therapy” involved. A corollary would explain the arcane clumps of non-academically relevant letters that trail the woo-sters’ names.I venture that the reason for this “abundance” lies neither in the plennipotent natural gifts nor multi-faceted “trained abilities” of the “therapist” but in economic reality. One cannot make a living solely by re-balancing Chakras or live by de-tox alone. Often, the woo-meister will branch out into “psychotherapy”, stress relief, dream analysis, after all, they *do* treat both body *and* mind- ( concerned as they are with the *elan vital* which permeates all). As mentioned previously, our web woo meisters often fancy themselves to be psychologists**,as well as economic and political analysts, thus providing “something for everyone”-being veritable Walmarts of Woo.**(expect some real b.s. in this dept. soon)

Yes, but can it reformat your boot sector?

Not only that, but it defragments your chakras!

Damm, they don’t list the CV for their colon therapist. I so wanted to know what’s entailed in that (so I’d be afraid it starts with brewing a pot of coffee).

Whole Body Healing Center of Lewisville

The use of “whole body” as an adjective seems to be a good indicator of woo. At least, I can’t recall seeing it anywhere legitimate.

I do like the way acupuncture is implied to be accurate because it’s old. Y’know, the same way Aristotelian physics are more accurate than Einsteinian. Even better is the way it never occurs to them to consider the same standard wrt quantum physics.

Damm, they don’t list the CV for their colon therapist. I so wanted to know what’s entailed in that (so I’d be afraid it starts with brewing a pot of coffee).

I will accept nothing less than a certified ex-barista from Starbuck’s.

The QXCI/SCIO, it slices, it dices, it juliennes fries!

If it could take a couple of pounds off my boot sector, I’d get one.

The use of “whole body” as an adjective seems to be a good indicator of woo. At least, I can’t recall seeing it anywhere legitimate.

I just got onto the waiting list for one of those “whole body transplants”, wherein every organ in the body is replaced by one from a donor. They tell me the wait is down to 475 years.

But don’t I need some “Chakra Balancing” … whatever that is?

Ever look at Indian pictures showing the Chakras? They look like wheels with little thingies hanging off them.

Ever hear the Dancing Woo Masters talk about “Vibrations” and how important “Vibrations” are?

Well, there you go. The Ancient Ascended Masters, Purveyors of Mystic Wisdom from the Exotic Orient (or is it Exotic Wisdom from the Mystic Orient?) are giving you simple homespun wisdom.

If your wheels start to vibrate especially at about 55mph you need to get them balanced. By hanging little weight thingies off them. In the distant past this could only be done Ayurvedically. But now just head in to Les Schwabb or Midas. They can do it for you in half an hour.

Now I know where to go next time I’m having problems with my cranial sacral spine. Of course, if I hadn’t gone to Dr. Zoidberg in the first place, I might never have had my cranium grafted directly to my sacrum.
I did a little searching of the intertoobz, hoping to find a schematic of the circuitry of the Quantum thingy – alas, no luck yet. But I did get a good laugh from

John Kelsey … Dip. Nut.

It is hard for me to imagine anything more apt.

Sadly, as the QXCI/SCIO seems to cost on the order of $18000 I doubt many people are going to be able to afford to purchase it and take it apart so as to find out just what is in there.

Orac, the link to your original post about the QXCI/SCIO thingie is broken. There is an extra sc after php

While I reading this I kept hearing a song in my head. It would in fact make a great soundtrack for this blog post. Better, it should play as Muzak in the WBHC waiting room. The song is “Step Right Up” by Tom Waits. It fits perfectly.

“…it filets, it chops, it dices, slices,…

“It gets rid of your gambling debts, it quits smoking
It’s a friend, and it’s a companion,
And it’s the only product you will ever need..

“We need your business, we’re going out of business
We’ll give you the business…”

“By that I mean it is reading the body’s meridian system that was developed many years ago by Chinese acupuncturist.”

If the meridian system was a factual thing, then wouldn’t it have been discovered or described, rather than developed? After all, we don’t say that Harvey developed the human circulatory system. Just sayin’.


the body’s meridian system that was developed many years ago by Chinese acupuncturist.

WTF is it with not using an “s” to make a plural when the word ends in “-ist”? I’ve been seeing it for a couple of years now, and it’s driving me nuts. Many of the same people also write “bias” when they mean “biased.”


I assume the QXCI/SCIO is similar to the EPFX.
“The EPFX — which stands for Electro Physiological Feedback Xrroid — claims to help everything from stress to Alzheimer’s. The device is hooked up to a patient with straps that wrap around the ankles, wrists, and forehead. The device supposedly reads the body’s reactivity to various frequencies, and then sends back other frequencies to make changes in the body.”
The link is to a Canadian consumer TV show’s investigation of one of these devices, which is interesting, entertaining and downright bizarre in places.

@Mu (#11):

Damm, they don’t list the CV for their colon therapist. I so wanted to know what’s entailed in that

The only thing entailed is a hose, in the victimpatient.

the QXCI/SCIO reminds me of the clean-up machine the Cat in the Hat rides in on. Perhaps Thing 1 and Thing 2 are Dr.Shawn’s acupuncture assistants.

don’t forget they have a Light Beam Generator, too.

“She is certified to use the Light Beam Generator (LBG), which is used to improve the lymphatic system. ”

The question is, does it kill Siths?

“Emotional Release”. I can achieve that with a bottle of beer and a shoot-em-up computer game. In fact, I think I’ll need some this evening. (Or if we’re really lowering the tone “I can achieve that with a vibrator. Ditto.”)

“Is a fair-trade coffee enema better for your Chakra?”

Only if it’s also certified organic.

The comments are very fun reading today–except for “pedant” who should get a grip, and that from someone who could pass for a pedant herself–but I really want to know WHICH Naturopathic College Dr. Shawn (and the other one) went to. They don’t even have the guts to honestly list their SUPPOSED credentials. What’s a “traditional” naturopath? Once who just decided to be one in the “traditional sense”. Not that I’d think any better of him if he actually went to a Naturopathic College, but at least it would show he had made some effort to learn something in a systematic way. This brings to me to my real point:

Perhaps, we, as skeptics should be doing more at the state level to reign in the licensing requirements for “health professionals”. After all, it was chiropractors who successfully lobbied for insurance reimbursement in addition to getting themselves “branded” as legitimate “doctors”. Anyone who has not gone to medical or nursing or physicaia’s assistant school should not be licensed to provide healthcare; this should never have happened and it should be dismantled. The state is abetting the fraudulent practice of “medicine”.


The QXCI/SCIO, it slices, it dices, it juliennes fries!
Ah, but can it crush a watermelon?

Only the Gallagher model

Speakin’ o’ foot baths, what is that woo that believes all ills are connected to the feet – the foot fetishists’ chiropractic? When I was in college, a young woman believer in this woo (called herself Phredd) gave me the Best. Foot. Massage. Evah.


And unlike (I’m sure) the Detox Foot Bath, it was free.

“Acupuncture is the most accurate medical science in the world. It has been around for over 5000 years.”

Eeh? What did they used back in the old days? Needles made from polished stone? I mean it was eight centuries before they even got bronze in China.

Somewhat off-topic, but I couldn’t help having a laugh over this article from today’s Globe and Mail ( about unregulated hyperbaric oxygen treatment:

But the director of a private hyperbaric clinic in B.C., which has treated more than 5,000 people over the last 13 years, indicated he’s seen amazing results for off-label conditions.

“You can keep an AIDS patient alive for virtually ever using hyperbarics,” said Humphrey Killam, director of Victoria’s HOC Hyperbaric Care Center.

He said that after 40 sessions in the chamber, AIDS was rendered undetectable in two of his patients.

Killam called it an impressive accomplishment against a disease that he insists is man-made. “You’ve got to fight something that’s genetically engineered to do you in,” said Killam, who charges $100 per 90-minute session, with most patients taking 40 to 50 treatments.

Especially this part:

Killam doesn’t have a medical doctor on staff, but the clinic does have experts in traditional Chinese medicine on site. A naturopath is only a few minutes away in case of emergency, he added.

Oh, well, then…

Killam doesn’t have a medical doctor on staff, but the clinic does have experts in traditional Chinese medicine on site.

Because, you know, the ancient Chinese were so big on hyperbaric oxygen therapy…

(is it too much to ask for the world of woo to at least be consistent?)

@35: I live in BC, and it’s a hotbed of woo. New Westminster especially. Right next to Royal Columbian Hospital is a “BC Alternative Medicine Centre” (or something along those lines), and right next to Columbia Skytrain station is a place that doubles as a naturopathic clinic AND medical school! And that’s not even scratching the surface…until you look up Traditional Chinese Medicine in the yellow pages…

Setar, I remember that school outside of Columbia station. Ugh, I had to wait there one day and every time someone went inside I just wanted to cry, or go ask them why they were going there and just what they were thinking. They had some flyers at the time, I wish I had picked a few up.

from the xrroid brochure:

“The EPFX/QXCI is the first of its kind to use a
Double Blind approach. By dealing on a
subconscious level, only the system is aware of the
thousands of items being tested. Neither the
operator nor the client can influence the scan.”

shit. they’ve developed an AI system that is AWARE!!!
and they gave it a couple DB-9 ports to connect to outside computers!!!!


p.s. notice how they slip in the term “Double Blind” in a misleading manor.

There is a lovely discordance in this statement:

“As the SCIO has been devised using the principles of Quantum Physics… …during treatment, the SCIO measures the body’s resonance/reactance pattern…”

Assuming that the human body has a “resonance/reactance pattern“, that would be pretty solidly in the realm of classical physics, not quantum physics.

Of, course, I’d be a fool to expect consistency – let alone accuracy – from a naturopath. Anyone who wasted four years learning nonsense surely isn’t capable of understanding resonance, reactance or quantum physics.

For me, the diagnostic feature of quackery is making statements that are intrinsically nonsensical, even though they may sound “sciency” to people with little backgroun in the sciences. Calling “resonance” and “reactance” quantum effects is one example of such nonsense. It has the same relationship to quantum physics as “The square root of orange is turquoise.” has to mathematics, but still manages to sound like science to the lay public.

We desparately need better science education in the primary and secondary schools.

Other intrisically nonsensical statements are the ever-popular “boosts the immune system” (do you really want to do that?) and the ubiquitous “promotes [fill in the blank] health” (should I take something – like selenium – that is advertised to “promote prostate health” if I don’t have a prostate?).

Folks like “Dr. Shawn” are good for a few laughs until you realise that there are people who actually look to this clown as a source of medical advice and treatment. That makes it much less funny.


Another really funny one Orac. I’m reading though your post clicking the links… and then reading the fn links and going WTF??? Who in their right mind could EVER read this, let along fork over money for it?
Then I go back to your post and find you are basically going WTF yourself? (Normal) And then I go again to a link and keep going WTF? Only more freaked. The cycle repeating itself until I ache.

I haven’t laughed so hard in weeks. Thank you. Great post. A treasure. I sent it to some friends.

Sic ’em Orac. Some of us out here love you.

Forget balancing chakras – someone needs to start offering balancing of Chopras. Chopra balancing is done by telling you one piece of bullshit, followed by one piece of factual information.

My favorite woo-ey quantumness is the quantum entanglement between customer and woo practitioner. Even if it were possible for a macroscopic entity like myself to be quantumly entangled with another macroscopic entity, why would I be entangled with the local woo-ster? (Ugh, pass the brain bleach!). Why couldn’t I be entangled with a woo-ster on the far side of the planet? Or perhaps a rock in orbit around a star many lightyears away? And how would a woo-ster happen to be entangled (ugh) with me rather than any of his other victims … I mean, customers? And how would I detect the quantumy entanglement anyway so that I could be sure I was dealing with the right woo-ster?

This appears to be a superfecta, not a trifecta. One of the other staff profiles states:

She is certified to use the Light Beam Generator (LBG), which is used to improve the lymphatic system.

OK, so is it just me, or did anyone else think “flashlight” when they read that?

Anyway, a quick search for LBGs turned up this product which, among other things, claims to be able to treat breast cancer.

For an added bonus, click on the clinical results link on the right. There seems to be some small confusion between anecdotes and evidence in play there…

Truly, no collection of woo can be really complete without a nice big dose of Tesla-woo.

“By that I mean it is reading the body’s meridian systemt hat was developed many years ago by Chinese acupuncturist.”

If the meridian system was a factual thing, then wouldn’t it have been discovered or described, rather than developed?

Humanity was created by Chinese acupuncturists!!

@39 Whenever I make a stop at the Mac’s or Subway, I take a quick look inside. The waiting room is only a bit bigger than my dentist’s, but it tends to have -far- more people in it on a given day than my dentist’s…

On that note, I just opened the 08/09 yellow pages for all of Greater Vancouver…chiropractors take up roughly FIVE PAGES (though one is mostly advertisement-size entries) alone. The Richmond/South Delta book consolidates it all into “Alternative Health”, but not so here – there’s a section for acupuncturists (~2 and a half pages), naturopaths (probably about 3/4 of a page spread out over multiple), and even one TCM entry…no homeopaths, thankfully.

So how do these woo-addled dipshits reconcile a belief in (their misunderstanding of) quantum theory and homeopathy? “Quantum” (as opposed to “Classical”) in a scientific theory means one thing and one thing only: Neither spacetime nor energy are infinitely divisible.

Isn’t the fundamental assumption of homeopathy the exact opposite? that the “virtues” of their medicaments are infinitely divisible? The fact that they think they increase in strength with dilution is pretty squirrelly all right, but the color force Idoes increase with distance…that’s pretty squirrelly, too….

Why dont you all shut your fucking mouth. Very easy to talk shit about naturapathy when all you know is the crap the university’s (government funded) spit out in well paid labs. IE, chemical bullshit is best, living off the earth is “dirty”, dangerous, ect. Lets all take pills and sit on our ass, sounds good! You dont know what your talking about and if all you do is point your fingers at people trying to improve lives you wont find anything new anyway. “Woo”? Scientific idiocy at it’s best. No wonder were all a bunch of fat fuckers.

Dear Dog, how exactly does a string of profane insults equate to evidence to support an opinion? Do tell. But the next time try some more intelligent mode.

Aw, gee, D… why did you change your username and web address (it looked like something like “aldaily”) in a the wee bit of time that I replied? Are you ashamed or something?

“Very easy to talk shit about naturapathy…”

But apparently very hard to spell it.

@40 “p.s. notice how they slip in the term “Double Blind” in a misleading manor.”

Surely “Double Blind” in this case means “twice as ignorant”?

“There seems to be some small confusion between anecdotes and evidence in play there…”

No. No confusion, the right dictionary clears it up.
The plural of anecdote is data.

Interesting that NO SCHOOL is listed by either
That’s why they are TRADITIONAL naturopaths, they sat in the forest until a voice came to them and announced they are doctors.

Wow, D’s completely oblivious to how things are. When I wanted to lose some weight, I bought a copy of Dance Dance Revolution for my PS2 and cut down the size of my meals. Because, you know, all the doctors recommend exercising more. I didn’t move to increase my fruits and veggies like they keep telling me because I’m a picky eater, unfortunately.

You know, kind of like how your dentist keeps telling you to floss if you don’t want cavities, but no one ever listens.

As for pill-popping your way to health, well, isn’t that why alties, naturopaths included, sell herbal supplements? They do it because people will pay for quick and easy solutions, whether or not they’ll work. I don’t buy into that hype.

As for “chemical,” ooooo-boogey-boogey! Man, do you sound stupid. What are you trying to say, that baryonic matter was invented by humans? Everything we experience in everyday life is made of chemicals. You might as well say “stuff” as if it were a scare word. Talk about being a fearmongering propagandist.

And for “nature,” man are you ignorant of what we actually believe. Nature is quite often dirty and dangerous. All those parasites in the swamps, all those toxins some herbs use to make themselves unpalatable to herbivores, and so on and so on. Yeah, there are good things in nature, but we need scientific study to separate those good things from all the bad. And I’ll tell you this much: The alties’ view of “My customers, my property” isn’t interested in doing anything other than making a profit.

That’s why we want institutions like the FDA to have some teeth and force everyone making medical claims to jump through those hoops. The only reason why I have the slightest trust my pharmacy is because the pharmaceutical companies have to bend over backwards to prove their products are safe and effective in a long string of experiments, all while remaining transparent.

And then someone like you comes along and expects people like me to just take your favorite corporation’s word for it. And when we dare to ask questions or point out problems you whine that your privileged exception from the rules isn’t extensive enough.

Back on the topic of “natural,” I ended up reminding myself of a story I heard about some tourist in Australia who tried to pet a wild kangaroo and got the stuffing knocked out of him.

Nature isn’t some place where Di$ney heroines dance and sing all day, surrounded by twittering birds. It makes me wonder if the bulk of naturopaths and their supporters only learn about nature through children’s cartoons and the propaganda their predecessors shell out to maintain that image. Nature is indifferent to human beings. There are some good things and there are some bad things. Nature is a complicated mess, just like the human body. We need scientific rigor, not commercial promises of easy answers, to know which is which.

Bronze Dog – I hang out with a lot of parents, and, currently with a lot of expecting parents (t – 47 days, at the longest), and one thing I try to remind them constantly is that Mother Nature is an uncaring bitch, especially when I hear things like, “That’s not natural.” What is natural? Well, before we humans started meddling around with reproduction, women were “naturally” having around 8 kids in their reproductive years, on average. Then again, on average, only 5 of those 8 would reach adulthood. Moreover, for 1 in 100 of the kids that were born, their mothers died in childbirth.

This is what all happened “naturally.” So before you come and tell me that something is bad because it is “not natural,” will you agree to have 8 kids and let 3 of them die, and take the 1 in 100 shot that YOU will die on each one of them? Because if you don’t, then it ain’t natural.


Gravity is perfectly natural, but if I am falling out of an airplane, I’m wanting a parachute and not taking my chances with Mother Nature.

Bronze Dog

Nature is indifferent to human beings.

Which is a good thing, because if “Nature” cared about human beings it would be doing it’s best to exterminate us.

Which is a good thing, because if “Nature” cared about human beings it would be doing it’s best to exterminate us.

I have to admit the prospect of fighting giant insects guided by the Grand Will of the Earth in mecha is awesome, but it wouldn’t exactly be safe for the people who don’t watch their anime, so yeah, it’s a good thing overall.

Slice of ice cream cake for whoever gets the reference. (Note: The ice cream portion may be a little melty by the time it arrives in the mail.)

“Nature is indifferent to human beings.”

Now that’s the most nonsensical statement I have seen in a long time. Is it a quote from Deepak Chopra? He always seems to want to anthropomorphise Nature too.

What exactly is “a chopra”

Is it a quantification of woo?

So we can have :
Millichopra for lies about Santa Claus
A Chopra. for run of the mill vitamin woo
And Kilochopra etc. for really outlandish bullshit involving much fleecing of the shills.

I cant believe it took until comment number 66 for someone to bring up fleecing and even then they didn’t work the Shawn(shorn)/fleece thing in there. Disappointing. 🙂

I love you guys! I haven’t laughed so hard in weeks. Can I make a copy of the post, suitable for framing?

Now that’s the most nonsensical statement I have seen in a long time. Is it a quote from Deepak Chopra? He always seems to want to anthropomorphise Nature too.

Sorry, I forget there are woos who take absolutely everything literal. I’ll try to avoid being so sloppy with metaphors in the future. 😉

If you saw an advertisement for a preacher offering to conduct services in a whole range of mutually-incompatible religions — christianity and druidism and buddhism and islam and odinism, say — and promising to put together a religious package tailored to the holistic needs of each individual client, then you’d suspect that he or she did not actually take any of these theologies seriously, and was purely running a scam. Funny how quacks can get away without provoking the same suspicion.

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