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Jessica Biel: The latest celebrity antivaxer comes out

Actress Jessica Biel Joined Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. to lobby California lawmakers to reject SB 276, a bill to stop bogus vaccine exemptions. Despite her claims that she’s “not antivax,” lobbying with a long time antivax crank like RFK, Jr. and expressing to legislators your belief that vaccines are both dangerous and ineffective are pretty much the definition of antivax.

As the week closes, there’s really only one thing I could write about, and it’ something that happened right at the end of the time period during which I was away trying to finish my grant. It’s something that people became aware of when news reports picked up on this Instagram image posted by antivaxer Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. of himself and actress Jessica Biel at the California State Senate:

Yes, that’s exactly what you think it is: Jessica Biel was lobbying lawmakers with a known antivaccine crank to kill the bill. But what is SB 276? Remember SB 277, which was passed into law in 2015 in the wake of the Disneyland measles outbreak? Basically, SB 277 eliminated nonmedical exemptions, so-called “personal belief exemptions,” to school vaccine mandates and allowed only medical exemptions. Naturally, it is a law that antivaxers really, really hate, probably because it worked, and personal belief exemptions fell immediately after it went into effect.

Unfortunately, SB 277 has a major weakness, namely that any physician can write a letter justifying an exemption using any reason he wants to, and the state is obligated to grant the exemption. It doesn’t matter if the reason has no basis in medicine and science; the doctor’s letter is enough. This was a necessary compromise at the time to get the bill passed into law, but it was a compromise that caused a huge problem. I bet you can guess rather quickly where this is leading. I did four years ago. It was a problem I foresaw at the time SB 277 when it was passed, when I asked: Will SB 277 enrich antivaccine doctors? The answer, of course, was yes. Led by antivaccine pediatrician Dr. Bob Sears, antivaccine doctors in California quickly developed a cottage industry of selling medical exemption letters. Sometimes this involved online sales, and some doctors became quite “entrepreneurial” about it, such as Dr. Tara Zandvliet, who has been responsible for 141 of the 486 total medical exemptions granted in the San Diego Unified School District since 2015. (The next closest doctor issued 26.) It was something, among other things, for which Dr. Bob got into trouble with the Medical Board of California for his activities. As a result, medical exemptions to school vaccine mandates soared, leading to slippage in California’s vaccination rate.

This problem spurred lawmakers, led by Sen. Arthur Pan, the California pediatrician turned state senator who led the charge for the original SB 277, to take action. The result was SB 276, which, if passed into law, would, beginning January 1, 2020, require that all requests for medical exemptions to school vaccine mandates be approved by the State Public Health Officer or designee, who could reject exemptions not supported by science. Under SB 276, the use of a standard exemption form that clearly states the reason for the medical exemption would be required, and the California Department of Public Health would also be required to maintain a database of exemptions that would allow officials to monitor which doctors are granting numerous exemptions.

This brings us back to Jessica Biel. If you’re Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and you’re lobbying California legislators to kill SB 276, what could be better than to bring along a little star power with you? Actually, it is a “little” star power, because I don’t even know what Jessica Biel has been in lately and don’t even remember if I’ve ever seen any of her movies, but that’s just me. I have heard of her though. I do know that she’s married to Justin Timberlake, and that, prior to this week’s coming out as an antivaxer, she had been the subject of news stories shortly after Justin’s and her son was born saying that the couple was not going to vaccinate him. I don’t recall her having spoken out against vaccination, however—before now. In any event, the result of her lobbying with RFK Jr. were an article in Jezebel by Anna Merlan entitled Well, Here’s Jessica Biel Apparently Lobbying California Lawmakers Alongside Anti-Vaccine Activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., an article in The Daily Beast entitled Jessica Biel Comes Out as Anti-Vaxx Activist, Joins Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to Lobby Against CA Vaccination Bill, and several similar headlines. From The Daily Beast:

On Tuesday, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., an environmental activist whose recent work has focused increasingly on baseless allegations that vaccines are unsafe and can injure a statistically minuscule population of “medically fragile” children, appeared at the California State Assembly beside an unlikely scene partner: actress Jessica Biel. In a series of Instagram posts, first reported in Jezebel by Anna Merlan, the two posed with activists, legislators, and miscellaneous bureaucratic architecture. In the caption, Kennedy called Biel “courageous.”

The duo had come to lobby against SB 276, a California state bill that would limit medical exemptions from vaccinations without approval from a state public-health officer. The bill has been decried by anti-vaxx advocates like Kennedy and vaguely critiqued by Gov. Gavin Newsom, over official estimations that it would reduce medical exemptions by nearly 40 percent.

Not surprisingly, there was a huge backlash against Biel on social media, and the stories in Jezebel and The Daily Beast spawned many other articles and blog posts criticizing her antivaccine stance. Of course, Jessica Biel and RFK, Jr. did have their defenders. (Antivaxers always do.) For instance, antivaccine-sympathetic pediatrician Dr. Jay Gordon took to Twitter:

I laughed out loud when I read that second Tweet and couldn’t believe that even Dr. Jay could say something so utterly stupid. This is RFK, Jr., after all! He’s long been a topic of this blog because he’s been an antivaccine activist for 15 years at least. I first noted him when he published an antivaccine conspiracy theory in Rolling Stone and Of course, this “not antivaccine” icon of reason is known for comparing vaccination to the Holocaust. Indeed, at the 2013 meeting of the quackfest known as Autism One, not only did RFK Jr. compare “vaccine-induced autism” to death camps, but he advocated locking up pro-vaccine advocates like Dr. Paul Offit. The late Dan Olmsted of the antivaccine crank blog Age of Autism described RFK Jr.’s Autism One keynote thusly:

Each of us will have our highlights from last weekend’s extraordinary Autism One gathering in Chicago, but for me it was Bobby Kennedy Jr. saying, “To my mind this is like the Nazi death camps.”

“This” is the imprisonment of so many of our children in the grip of autism. Talk about cutting through the neurodiverse claptrap! When Bobby Kennedy says something, it gives “cover,” in a sense, for others to use the same kind of language and frame the debate in the same kind of way. (Language that reminds me of David Kirby’s phrase, “the shuttered hell” of autism, in Evidence of Harm.)

Those who can advocate for themselves should do so. Move right along, please. Those who cannot have advocates like their parents and RFK Jr. who are sick of mincing words.


The enablers may not belong in Nuremburg, but they do belong in jail, Bobby said. “I would do a lot to see Paul Offit and all these good people behind bars,” he said, after listing Offit’s litany of lies and profit. Just to make sure people got the point, he returned to it in his speech. “Is it hyperbole to say they should be in jail? They should be in jail and the key should be thrown away.”

Amusingly, the link to the original Age of Autism article by Olmsted describing RFK, Jr.’s 2013 keynote now returns a blank page. Indeed, I noticed that that had happened within a day or so of the article’s going live. The post disappeared so fast that even the almighty Wayback Machine at never managed to archive the original text, leaving only text quoted in my post and a handful of contemporaneous sources as the only source of Olmsted’s account of what RFK Jr. said. My guess regarding what happened is that RFK, Jr. wasn’t pleased to see Dan Olmsted’s account of what he had said in what he had thought was the privacy of a crank conference, realized that it would reflect very, very poorly on him, and told Olmsted to take it down. (I don’t know for sure that that’s what happened, but it’s a reasonable inference.) It is, however, hilarious to me that well over two years before Donald Trump started leading chants of “Lock her up!” in his campaign, RFK, Jr. was doing, in essence, the same about Paul Offit and other pro-vaccine advocates. More recently, RFK Jr. has been channeling antivaccine über-crank Jock Doubleday by issuing a bogus challenge to “prove” that vaccines are safe.

Yesterday, RFK Jr. issued another “I’m not antivaccine statement“:

Kennedy in a statement on Thursday criticized the California bill, saying decisions regarding medical exemptions for vaccines should come from doctors, not the government.

“I am not anti-vaccine. I am calling for safer vaccines and the right for doctors to determine if a patient is at high risk of adverse reactions to vaccines,” he said. “We should all speak out against this clear case of government overreach.”

In reality, despite his risible claims that he is “fiercely pro-vaccine,” RFK, Jr. is rabidly antivaccine. After all, what else would you call someone who’s likened vaccination to death camps and the Holocaust and advocated throwing vaccine advocates in jail? “Antivaccine” is the perfect word to describe RFK, Jr., so antivaccine, in fact, that a month ago his own family called him out for his antivaccine proselytizing.

Not that any of that stopped Dr. Jay:

What Dr. Jay was referring to is this Instagram post by Jessica Biel:

View this post on Instagram

This week I went to Sacramento to talk to legislators in California about a proposed bill. I am not against vaccinations — I support children getting vaccinations and I also support families having the right to make educated medical decisions for their children alongside their physicians. My concern with #SB276 is solely regarding medical exemptions. My dearest friends have a child with a medical condition that warrants an exemption from vaccinations, and should this bill pass, it would greatly affect their family’s ability to care for their child in this state. That’s why I spoke to legislators and argued against this bill. Not because I don’t believe in vaccinations, but because I believe in giving doctors and the families they treat the ability to decide what’s best for their patients and the ability to provide that treatment. I encourage everyone to read more on this issue and to learn about the intricacies of #SB276. Thank you to everyone who met with me this week to engage in this important discussion!

A post shared by Jessica Biel (@jessicabiel) on

Regular readers and those who regularly combat antivaccine misinformation will immediately recognize a number of antivaccine tropes being spewed by Jessica Biel. First of all, there’s the old “I’m not antivaccine” trope, a trope going back to Jenny McCarthy and well earlier. When McCarthy used it, it took the form of “I’m not antivaccine; I’m pro-safe vaccine,” with her casting herself as a vaccine safety advocate. It’s a trope that’s easily shown to be utter bullshit just by looking at how, apparently, no vaccine is “safe enough” for antivaxers like McCarthy, and McCarthy is far from alone in deceptively donning the mantle of “vaccine safety activist.” Of course, times change, and now, in Jessica Biel’s hands, the “I’m not antivaccine trope” takes the form of “I’m not antivaccine; I’m pro-freedom” or “I’m not antivaccine; I’m for informed consent” or “I’m not anti-vaccine; I’m for the doctor-patient relationship.” All of these are bullshit too, as Anna Merlan almost immediately showed by actually interviewing a legislative staffer who sat in on one of those meetings between legislators and RFK Jr. and Jessica Biel:

The staffer says that both Biel and Kennedy spent some of the meeting talking about their personal belief that vaccines are both dangerous and ineffective, a belief that goes against the overwhelming weight of medical and scientific evidence.

Biel believes that vaccines are dangerous and ineffective? That’s basically a major part of the definition of “antivaccine”!

In response to Jessica Biel’s Instagram post, the staffer reported:

The legislative staffer we spoke to, however, says that some of what Biel discussed did center around her own personal concerns regarding vaccines.

“Jessica said that her doctor recommended the regular vaccine schedule for her kid and she refused,” the staffer wrote, saying that Biel claimed that her friend’s child had an adverse reaction to a vaccine. (In her Instagram post, Biel wrote, “My dearest friends have a child with a medical condition that warrants an exemption from vaccinations, and should this bill pass, it would greatly affect their family’s ability to care for their child in this state.”)

The staffer also said that Biel seemed to indicate she’d then visited multiple doctors to find one who was comfortable with her preference: “She practically admitted to doctor shopping, which SB 276 is trying to prevent. She said she wants safe vaccines and mentioned ‘corporations’ a lot.”

At that point, the rest of the group Biel was with, the staffer wrote, including RFK Jr., “tried to pivot away from the doctor shopping piece, talking about how vaccines are both dangerous and ineffective at the same time. They kept mentioning these people who don’t develop antibodies from vaccines. They also mentioned a gene associated with vaccine injuries, and when I looked it up, I could only find it on these anti-vax sites.”

So in her Instagram post, Jessica Biel claimed that she was all about the doctor-patient relationship when it comes to vaccines, but when her child’s first pediatrician recommended vaccinating according to the CDC recommendations, she refused. Not only did she refuse, but she immediately went doctor shopping until she found an antivaccine quack more to her liking. Realizing that perhaps talking about her doctor shopping was hurting her, she tried to pivot to antivaccine misinformation, such as MTHFR mutations, the latest favored bit of antivaccine pseudoscience that antivax doctors and parents use to justify bogus medical exemptions.

The MTHFR gene encodes methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase, an enzyme that catalyzes the conversion of 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate to 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, a cosubstrate for homocysteine remethylation to methionine. You don’t really need to know the details or to understand that much about it (although, advantages of having been at this a long time, I can’t help but note that MTHFR woo is just the latest iteration of antivaccine woo that claims that vaccines somehow impact oxidation-reduction pathways in the cell in a way that can cause autism or other adverse reactions to vaccine) other than that natural variation of the gene is very common in healthy individuals, with the vast majority of variants of no health consequence. Antivaxers claim that MTHFR variants predispose to “vaccine injury,” but there is no evidence to support these claims. There were some early studies that found MTHFR variants linked to a variety of diseases, but the associations didn’t hold up to bigger datasets and better analytic tools. None of this has stopped entrepreneurial antivax doctors from ordering 23andMe tests looking for MTHFR variants to use as reasons to justify not vaccinating. Jessica Biel apparently buys into this outright antivaccine quackery.

The vast majority of antivaccine activists deny being antivaccine, so much so that when I encounter the rare antivaxer who actually says, “I’m antivaccine,” I almost have to admit a bit of grudging respect for her. At least she’s being honest. So what we have here are two celebrities claiming they’re “not antivaccine.” One, RFK Jr., believes that vaccines are dangerous and ineffective and has a history of comparing vaccines to the Holocaust, advocating locking up pro-vaccine advocates, and spreading antivaccine misinformation and pseudoscience going back at least 14 years. The other also believes that vaccines are dangerous and ineffective and has a history of ignoring a pediatrician’s recommendation to vaccinate her son according to the CDC schedule and doctor shopping to find a physician willing to indulge her desire not to vaccinate, even as she promoted antivaccine pseudoscience to California legislators with an antivaccine crank known for his having compared vaccination to the Holocaust and advocated locking up Paul Offit.

But Jessica Biel and her sycophants, toadies, and lackeys would have you believe that she’s not antivaccine. Yeah, right. She’s as antivaccine as celebrities come. Maybe she’s auditioning for the role of the next Jenny McCarthy.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

115 replies on “Jessica Biel: The latest celebrity antivaxer comes out”

Drat, I actually liked JT in Inside Llewellyn Davis. Jessica Biel, though – if you put a gun to my head and asked me to name something she’s been in, I’d be dead.

“saying decisions regarding medical exemptions for vaccines should come from doctors, not the government”

How about the doctors in the government? No? Just money grubbing quacks? Okay, then.

“She said she wants safe vaccines and mentioned ‘corporations’ a lot.”

Oh, for a transcript…

I’m sure there was something about “corporate profits,” though. As if corporations made money on vaccines, and pro-disease quacks didn’t make money selling bogus exemptions.

Yep, MERCK, a profit driven corporation, is turning quite a profit. Fear mongering and medical tyranny definitely helps. You know what else helps? MERCK’s monopoly on the MMR in the U.S. “(Reuters) – Merck & Co Inc reported higher-than-expected first-quarter profit on Tuesday on increased demand for vaccines”

Does Merck make all vaccines? What percentage of their profits are from vaccines?

Also, why is it cheaper to hospitalize one out of ten cases of measles versus preventing the disease with two MMR vaccines?

Right. Sure.
Where do you get these ideas?
Most likely from alt med people** who tell you this and who work purely as non-profits. Right.

** various websites that disparage ALL pharmaceuticals and SBM. Or anti-vax sites who sell supplements, treatments, books, videos, “charities” or merely themselves as innovators or journalists.
Natural News, PRN, Mercola, Green Med Info, Age of Autism, Andy Wakefield, Del Bigtree, NVIC, TMR etc.
None of these people are informing you for free.

There’s BIG money in supplements and alt med media.

Natalie: I thought you ran away from this site because big bad Orac was censoring you? Was that a lie? Maybe you could go back to the thread you ran away from and answer the questions you didn’t before?

P.S. DORIT REISS (apparently that name works on anti-health advocates like a cross does on vampires).

Annual revenue (not profit) 44 billion
Keytruda (a cancer drug) 2.27 billion sales (about 5% of sales)
Gardasil 828 million
MMR and Chickenpox combined 496 million (about 1% of sales)

No profit numbers were cited for individual profits, but net revenue was 2.92 billion or about 6.6% profit.

That’s better than some businesses where margins are often extremely thin, but hardly exorbitant.

Yeah . . . you know your bait and switch tactic to support your claims didn’t really work.

Yes, Merck is posting higher profits. No, it’s not because of demand for MMR, as you imply in the wording of your post. It’s based on sales of Gardasil (the HPV vaccine, still under patent) and Keytruda, a cancer drug.

Merck only has a monopoly in that it’s the only manufacturer choosing to make it. Other companies could but don’t, because they’d rather make money on other drugs. Older vaccines like MMR are break even for them, so there’s not a lot of incentive for competition.

And you know, there’s absolutely NOTHING wrong with pharmaceutical companies making a profit. I have my own issues with them at times, but they have a right to make money for their investors, and it’s not a shameful thing for them to do given they do produce a lot of needed medications to treat acute and chronic illness.

Jay Gordon is anti-vax. He still doesn’t recommend MMR before 3 year age = anti-vax. He still thinks vaccines cause autism = anti-vax. Gordon never apologized for going on TV twice during California measles outbreaks to tell parents not to vaccinate = anti-vax. Gordon should lose his license just like the other publicly anti-vax physicians out there, doubly so because he’s an anti-vax pediatrician. That he defends this loony anti-vax Biel = anti-vax. FYI, you can get a one-time “vaccine consultation” with Gordon for a mere $770. No profit there for pool ol’ Jay.

The only reason SB276 exists is because anti-vax physicians wrote so many unjustified (but oh-so-profitable) vaccine exemptions since 2016 to cause re-emergence of the same low-vaccination clusters that fueled the 2015 “Disneyland” measles outbreak as well as the 2010 and 2014 pertussis outbreaks.

Personally, I think Dr. Jay has changed a bit. He still leans antivax, but he has enough of a sense of shame and desire for the respect of his colleagues that he’s begun to doubt himself and doesn’t have sufficient courage of conviction to go full antivax. So he keeps straddling the line, trying to have it both ways. However, every so often he reveals himself, such as now by claiming that RFK, Jr. is “not antivaccine,” even going so far as to say that RFK, Jr. is “as far from being an ‘antivax crank’ as one can get.” No, Dr. Jay. I can see how you might claim that Jessica Biel is “not antivax” based on the news coverage (other than Anna Merlan’s Jezebel story), but not RFK, Jr. He’s pretty much the epitome of an antivax crank and has been at least since 2005, which, ironically, is when Dr. Jay and I first “met” online.

Reading the Jezebel article Orac linked to:
We learn – “The staffer added that he [RFK, Jr.] also “also talked about how his granddaughter and other kids won’t be able to get permanent medical exemptions under the bill.””
This adds texture to Junior’s anti-vaccine delusion.
I wonder what ailment his “granddaughter” suffers from that he blames on vaccines.
It is also noteworthy that his above statement implicitly acknowledges that he intends to seek a fraudulent medical exemption for her when he realizes that she will not qualify for a genuine medical exemption otherwise he would not be convinced she “won’t be able to get a permanent medical exemption”.
Seeking fraudulent medical exemptions and getting mad when somebody wants to stop you…
Jeeze, talk about thinking you are an entitled aristocrat.
This guy is taking rich lawyer sleaze to new levels.
I didn’t think my contempt for the guy could go any lower but here we are.

Orac: ”I laughed out loud when I read that second Tweet and couldn’t believe that even Dr. Jay could say something so utterly stupid. This is RFK, Jr., after all!”

I can readily believe Jay Gordon saying something that stupid. It is Dr. Jay, after all. 🙂

To balance Jessica Biel’s photo op with RFK Jr., here’s another actress (Marcia Cross) who recognizes the value of HPV vaccination for her children.

If they believe vaccines are dangerous and ineffective, why wouldn’t they be antivaccine? Do they want children to be given dangerous things?

Thanks for the link DB, and hooray for Marcia Cross for speaking out! Sadly, nothing she says will convince the fundamentalists who refuse to think their kids will have sex (or any sort of activity sexual in nature) before marriage–and even more naively that neither that child or the partner of that child will ever have had any such contact with anyone else. Still, a lot of people who may be reachable will be reminded to get that shot for their kids.

Update: Bill passes New York legislature, signed by Governor: is now law:

“”I’m not aware of anything in the Torah, the Bible, the Koran or anything else that suggests you should not get vaccinated,” said Bronx Democrat Jeffrey Dinowitz, who sponsored the bill.”

“California, Mississippi, West Virginia and Maine have also banned non-medical vaccine exemptions for school children.”

Anti-vaxers “screamed profanity” as the bill was passed. (Shameful conduct, that; does anyone have video?)

Update: Bill passes New York legislature, signed by Governor: is now law

Sigh.I suspect that this is going to be a mess, given the NYSED archives.

^ At least Never Win Finn should be cobbling together incoherent drafts by now.

Ah, the frum follies. Get fucking jobs rather than exploiting your wives. The Torah will still be around after the shift-bell rings.

RFK jr left the East Coast in the past few years: he married an actress, Cheryl Hines of Curb Your Enthusiasm. His real estate activity has been noted on-line.

I suppose he thinks that entertainment folks will be accepting of his anti-vax plus they have money for his charities.

This was going around my Facebook last night and I commented that I’ll never watch anything Biel’s in again. But then I got to thinking; have I ever watched anything with her?

Based on IMDB, the only candidates are Blade: Trinity (what? I never said I had good taste in vampire movies) and the TV show 7th Heaven, the most saccharine, sappy, holier-than-thou prime-time soap of my teenage years.

So, I guess that will be an easy promise to keep!

Orac: “Personally, I think Dr. Jay has changed a bit. He still leans antivax, but he has enough of a sense of shame and desire for the respect of his colleagues that he’s begun to doubt himself and doesn’t have sufficient courage of conviction to go full antivax. So he keeps straddling the line, trying to have it both ways.”

Jay’s evident longing for respect from evidence-based colleagues goes back a long way on RI. I’m not seeing actual self-doubt, rather a strategy in which ostensible fence-straddling is designed to reel in followers and parents who are both hardcore antivax and “vaccine-hesitant”. Bob Sears and Paul Thomas have this down to a (pseudo)science: announce a limited/delayed office vaccine schedule, while simultaneously promoting bogus tropes about vaccine harms (the toxin gambit is especially popular). That way you can say “I’m certainly not antivaccine, look at these immunizations I endorse”, while nudging parents away from vaccines entirely.

Jay has done this with the limited palette of shots he’s supposedly OK with. Example: awhile back on RI he announced he was in favor of adolescent males getting the HPV vaccine (oddly, he left out the main target group for HPV vaccination – pre-teen and adolescent females). But Jay remains on the anti-aluminum bandwagon, warning against aluminum-based adjuvants used in vaccines. Oops, Gardasil contains such an adjuvant. So either Jay is extremely confused about his HPV vaccine recommendation, or he’s giving parents the excuse they need not to get it for their kids.

Lots of room there in Jay Gordon’s Big Tent of Antivax.

A. @Andrew: you called?
B. @Natalie White: I didn’t see anything in your article about MMR being part of their profits.

@DORIT REI$$ – “Gardasil, a vaccine for preventing cancers associated with human papillomavirus, powered much of the earnings beat, helped by higher vaccination rates in Europe, WHILE OTHER VACCINES, SUCH AS THE MEASLES SHOT, ALSO HELPED RESULTS.” The article does not refer to it as MMR.

Now before you and the rest of the sickophants cry “foul” because I used ALL CAPS, the content WAS NOT CHANGED!

No one is arguing that manufacturers don’t make any profit on vaccines. But, if they were so profitable, why did so many companies stop manufacturing them?

Perhaps you should read this article for context.

Actual vaccine profits are unknown, but the companies make more profit on newer vaccines like Prevnar and the HPV vaccine which are still patented than on older vaccines like the MMR. Merck is the only company licensed to manufacture it in the U.S., but it is no longer patented so other companies could manufacture it.

And those profits are needed to fund research into vaccines for additional diseases like ebola and zika.

Yes, the article spells out the diseases instead of just using the initials. So what?

NAT-a-LIAR (hey random caps are fun and totally prove things): The word is sycophant. Thank you for your attention. Please keep up the good work – the vaccine companies get a lot of money when people like you make sure that diseases stick around (the poor smallpox vaccine companies are kicking themselves for not hiring you to make sure their product was still needed).

@Narad – Hey, thanks for sharing that youtube clip! I forgot about that! It still cracks me up! Watched it 3X. His laugh is contagious!

@Narad – Hey, thanks for sharing that youtube clip!

I haven’t posted any Y—be links in this thread.

She’s talking about the imaginary Narad in her head. He posts Youtube videos all the time.

@Narad the demi-God – I find the origin of words interesting. Makes a person wonder how much has changed in 100 years…..and some things remain the same.

pharmacy (noun) late 14c., “a medicine,” from Old French farmacie “a purgative” (13c.), from Medieval Latin pharmacia, from Greek pharmakeia “use of drugs, medicines, potions, or spells; poisoning, witchcraft; remedy, cure,” from pharmakeus (fem. pharmakis) “preparer of drugs, poisoner, sorcerer” from pharmakon “drug, poison, philter, charm, spell, enchantment.” Beekes writes that the original meaning cannot be clearly established, and “The word is clearly Pre-Greek.”

Meaning “use or administration of drugs” is attested from c. 1400; that of “place where drugs are prepared and dispensed” is first recorded 1833. The ph- was restored 16c. in French, 17c. in English

This is amazing.I had never seen this before,and I considered myself pretty aware of antivaccine history.One hundred years later,and nothing’s changed.This could have been written today.

@ Andrew – ORAC is not big and not bad. In fact, he’s a smart guy and knows this echo chamber would be monotonous without opposition. I am not anti-health. However, I am anti medical tyranny. I am anti fear-mongering. I am against authoritarian people like DORIT REI$$ who advocates for more mandates and less exemptions. I do not seek medical advice from law professors or professional bloggers. Do you know she has stock in GSK? Her paper regarding the “the Benefits of Capture” is concerning.

The CDC won’t bite the hand(s) that feeds it. They sold out a long time ago and have lost credibility.

@Science Mom – “But failed TV producers, lawyers and celebrities are fine?” I get information from many sources – including here. I spend a lot of time reading. Good day and good health.

Let’s examine that:

Who are “many sources”? I’ve spent a lot of time reading – and going into the backgrounds- of well known anti-vaxxers. Science Mom is right- she exactly describes the people being discussed here ( Del, RFK jr and Biel).

Most anti-vax sites are primarily run by people without a medical/ scientific background. Often cited are AoA and TMR: writers are parents with varying educations such as business, education, English etc. The closest I’ve seen amongst them with any sort of relevant education are a social worker and a counselor ( Alison MacNeil and Katie Wright, respectively)- who should be ashamed of themselves for their anti-science stance.

In addition, large natural health sites like Natural News, Green Med Info and PRN are the provinces of assorted amateurs with a variety of non-standard or unrelated degrees who also sell vitamins or literature. It is unusual for an anti-vaxxer to have a medical background but there are a few ( Orac discusses them frequently ) who have built businesses around their position – selling vitamins like Dr Mercola or altie care like Drs Palevsky, Gordon and Sears. Thus, money is a factor too.

Disgruntled parents might be seeking fame and a book deal ( see AoA authors’ list); the doctors all earn money, NVIC pays its director. Even a few amateurs ( Kim Rossi) are paid.

-btw- it is very disrespectful to spell a person’s name with dollar signs

Natalie, can you remind me if you’ve checked to be sure that your 401(k), or any other mutual funds you hold are free of pharma companies? Because if they aren’t, doesn’t that make you exactly like Dorit?

@Justatech – No. I am not like DORIT REI$$. And the argument you’ve tried before and again is “everyone’s hands are in this so just shut up and follow along”. No thanks. Not a fan of the ends justify the means or of the “greater good”. Too many are harmed and “taking one for the herd”. Herd immunity is an interesting concept and quite a burden to put on babies and children. Seems likely most adults are under vaccinated and not contributing to herd immunity. It’s amazing we are surviving.

“Too many are harmed and “taking one for the herd”.”

Prove it. Citation needed.

Natalie, I’m not saying that you should “shut up”. I’m just saying that if, as by your assertion, owning stock in a Pharma company somehow contaminates a person, or makes them a stooge for pharma, then shouldn’t you make sure that you don’t have any of this stock? Because it would seem very hypocritical on your part.

There are all kinds of investment groups that make funds one can buy that adhere to personal moral or religious codes. I’m sure there’s one out there somewhere with no Pharma or biotech investments.

Dorit Reiss gives legal advice, not medical one. You may check her arguments. Please comment cases she refers. Heath freedom is not at all settled law.
Do you know that CDC wants to reduce use of antibiotics ? This reduces Big Pharma profits. How did this happen ?
CDC is, of course, fed by taxpayer money, not Big Pharma.

@Aarno Syvänen – CDC is funded by both – tax payers AND it’s foundation. Look at the list. It’s a good thing the CDC wants to reduce the use of antibiotics. Antibiotics are not mandated so your comparison does not apply.


Of course his comparison applies – vaccines aren’t mandated either. Your whole line of reasoning is that pharmaceutical companies are trying to get them mandated to increase profits and the CDC is working at their behest, by the same logic wouldn’t they be trying to get antibiotics mandated in order to maximise profits?

The drive to reduce prescriptions of antibiotics (particularly new ones) has certainly been hurting the manufacturers – it’s probably a major factor in what put Achaogen into Chap. 11. Many of the major pharmaceutical makers are getting out of the antibiotic R&D sector because of it. If the CDC wouldn’t “bite the hand that feeds” as you put it why aren’t we seeing a CDC effort to push the antibiotics?

Dorit has GSK stock? REALLY?! You’ve never mentioned it.

In case you couldn’t tell that was sarcastic.

You still insist on flogging that dead horse – despite the fact that it’s been shown to you numerous times that any potential financial gains she would stand to make from improved vaccination sales are extremely minor, and the fact that she quite appropriately declares that stock.

Unlike the anti-vaxxer crowd such as (off the top of my head) Andrew Wakefield, who was paid over half a million dollars specifically to attack MMR which he didn’t declare. Just like he didn’t declare that he filed a patent for a single measles vaccine some months before announcing that he’d “discovered” (read: made up) a serious problem with the combined vaccine, and given his single vaccine only stood to make him money if MMR were out of the way. It wasn’t the only finger he had in the pie either – his hoped his plan to manufacture and sell testing kits, services and therapies for the “syndrome” he made up would be netting him millions a year (those are his own forecasts btw).

Of course we all know about how his fraud, unethical practices and shameless grab to exploit people for profit in a scan got exposed and he was rightly kicked out of the medical profession for it, hasn’t stopped him flogging that dead horse to keep funding his lavish lifestyle though. Must be an anti-vaxxer thing.

Natalie: “The CDC won’t bite the hand(s) that feeds it. They sold out a long time ago and have lost credibility.

That’s a highly disturbing list of contributors to the CDC Foundation. Particularly worrisome are Highline School District No. 401 and the Major League Baseball Players Association.*

*I’ll bet some major league baseball players own stock in drug companies. Especially members of the New York Yankees.

It’s Public Health Agency of Canada that you should be worried about.. next they’ll be pushing their dirty stinking universal health care. Don’t they realize that injuries and disease are God’s way to punish people for being poor?

@Dang Bacon – Please don’t marginalize. All the pHARMa players and others who benefit are on the CDC Foundation list.

Are you on the Big Hospital Supply Foundation? You keep pushing diseases that cause hospitalizations, so you must be in the pocket of manufacturers of respirators, gurneys, and oxygen tanks.

@squirrelite – “No one is arguing that manufacturers don’t make any profit on vaccines…..” Roadsterguy was implying they don’t make a profit. I countered the claim.

DORIT REI$$ asked about the article because she didn’t see MMR. I was answering her question. Less exemptions and more mandates increase vaccination uptake which increases profits.

You’re right that the article did address the measles vaccine, and I missed it. Thank you for pointing that out.

But note that most new mandates were not in place for this to happen. What seems to be actually driving the increase in purchase are the measles outbreaks, brought forth by anti-vaccine activists promoting misinformaiton. When outbreaks happen, more people vaccinate, because the risk of disease is more visible. Mandates come later, if at all.

In other words, you and your friends are working hard to help Merck’s bottom line.

By the way, the mandates are also a response to the outbreaks. That’s another thing the anti-vaccine movement is a big part of creating.

“In other words, you and your friends are working hard to help Merck’s bottom line.”

Antivaxers can’t seem to wrap their heads around a simple concept: promoting the refusal (and elimination) of vaccines encourages vastly expanded Pharma profits from the sale of antibiotics and other drugs to treat millions of new patients with vaccine-preventable diseases.

Natalie needs to reveal what Pharma stocks are in her portfolio. And how do we know she isn’t paid by drug makers to post here?

If you Google “Bill Gates Natalie White” you get over 8.5 MILLION hits! Connect the dots, people. 🙁

And don’t forget cancer-therapies for those infected by HPV, because they are not vaccinated against it.

Oh no, if Natalie is a shill for anyone (I don’t think she is but let’s have some fun), then she’s a shill for Big Saline. For all the makers of IV fluids. Because when people get really sick and end up in the hospital they need IV fluids. Every year there’s a bad flu season you see the availability of saline and Lactated Ringer’s and the rest of those fluids just dry up (if you’ll pardon the pun).

@ Squirrel:

“No one is arguing that manufacturers
don’t make any profit on vaccines.
But, if they were so profitable, why did
so many companies stop manufacturing them?”

Well, the answer sure won’t be found in the link you provided. Here is a much more accurate account:

The answer, is that manufacturers were facing so many lawsuits for vaccine injuries that their insurers were threatening to pull out. Pretty spectacular, given that Pharmaceutical companies don’t even blink an eye at throwing millions of dollars in lawsuit awards to the DOJ every year, as they still enjoy immense profits, even after litigation.

But vaccines? Due to the amount of adverse events, it took a literal act of Congress to reduce their liability; legally … not because they were made safer … & make them a viable commodity.

I can’t imagine that someone would decline vaccination because Pharma would profit. Former-vaxxers invoke pharma profit because it’s the only conceivable reason as to why the death & disablement of their children has been endorsed & now mandated.

I certainly don’t think so. I believe vaccines are & endorsed & mandated out of a genuine belief of their advantages.

So, Ms. White, when are you going to explain to us with verifiable documentation that it is so much cheaper to let kids get sick with measles rather than get two doses of an MMR vaccine? I keep asking, and you keep avoiding… and yet the numbers seem to defy your claims:

Until you give us that data we will just assume you are shill with Big Hospital Supply rolling in all that sweet cash from the sales of oxygen tanks and bags of saline.

While at the same time tax payers have to pay wads of cash to contain the outbreaks. From that article: “Minnesota officials said that the measles outbreak of 2017 cost the state at least $1 million, while Washington state said that it spent over $1 million dealing with measles just in the first two months of 2019. The costs are much higher for measles outbreaks on a national scale: Researchers say that the 2011 outbreak, when there were 16 separate outbreaks and 107 confirmed cases of measles, cost state and local health institutions somewhere between $2.7 million to $5.3 million.”

And: “Denver a couple years ago wound up costing a total of more than $68,000. Dr. Nathaniel Smith, the director of the Arkansas Department of Health, said this week that a single case of measles probably now costs health services somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000.”

Plus: “If we were to extrapolate using that figure, the 704 cases of measles currently confirmed in the U.S. would be costing our health institutions over $35 million. Even if that’s an overestimate, it would seem like the measles outbreak of 2019 will easily cost the U.S. tens of millions of dollars.”

So while you and your friends are making every one else foot the bill… someone is making a buck off of the anti-vaccine frenzy from Big Hospital Supply to Del Bigtree (apparently lots of cash from the Selz Foundation, today’s Washington Post). You must feel so happy about that, along the fact so many kids are going to the hospital.

No, thank you. You are standing your ground; I should do this more.

I should do this more.

Make an annoyingly blockheaded fool of yourself? There’s no questioning choice of hobbies, I suppose.

@Christine K

You’re hop-skipping over some inconvenient facts there – vaccine manufacturers were indeed abandoning the US market because fear of lawsuits was making it hard to get insurance coverage.

This was over the hysteria surrounding the whole-cell pertussis vaccination back in the 80’s after a study suggested a link between it and brain damage. Cue an onslaught of lawyers seeking to sue for anything that remotely resembled brain damage claiming that it was “the vaccine wot dunnit”, given the low profit margins on the vaccine it hardly seemed worth it so manufacturers pulled out.

The NCVIA in 1986 was effectively the gov’t stepping in to be that insurance (paid for by a levy on the money manufacturers received for each dose sold).

The irony of course – the original hypothesis suggesting that DPT was causing brain damage turned out not to be accurate. Whoops! So most of those lawsuits weren’t actually the result of real adverse events – they were the based on unfounded fears.

Unfounded fears… doesn’t that sound familiar?

This was over the hysteria surrounding the whole-cell pertussis vaccination back in the 80’s after a study suggested a link between it and brain damage.

NBC didn’t help with Vaccine Roulette, either. Enter Babs Fisher.

No, the hypothesis was not inaccurate. In the early 1990s, HHS Secretary Shalala changed the Injury Table to eliminate some important vaccine injuries, such as ‘residual seizure disorder’. Since that particular change meant post-DTP seizures went ‘off table’; the awards could be controlled.

The fear was based on the DTP causing brain damage in children. The epidemiology from the National Childhood Encephalopathy Study In 1978, confirmed the fear was based in reality.

Finding that the DPT was not causing brain damage? Was achieved by moving the goalposts.

The recent Strategic Advisory Group of Experts on Immunizations noted that the majority of studies (7/10) show a deleterious effect of DTP, yet the evidence was considered inconsistent due to the two studies that didn’t.

It’s worth mentioning that the Bandim Health Project has established that the DPT is associated with increased child mortality, even in populations where Pertussis is endemic.!po=54.6875

“It’s worth mentioning that the Bandim Health Project has established that the DPT is associated with increased child mortality, even in populations where Pertussis is endemic.”

Not really.

Please do not compare the DTaP administered in North America and Europe in the 2000s to the DTP given to children in one of the poorest countries on this planet in the 1980s. Many of those kids died of things you would never encounter like malaria, dengue, and waterborne diseases.


An amusing delusion, this.

You see, no one has ever gone antivax except for those who’ve experienced vaccines’ Evil Effects.

Dangerous Bacon, I cannot speak for the physicians, scientists, politicians or celebrities who you would call ‘antivaccine’. I’m intrigued as to why they affiliate as they do. All I can speak to is myself & the only reason you would call me Antivaccine is due to what happened both when I was pro-vaccine & before my parents knew any better.

When my parents attempted to re-enter the U.S. with their two daughters who were born overseas, the military required not just proof of immunization but proof of immunity. Note, my parents were returning from Japan.

Unfortunately, I am a non-responder to the Measles Vaccine & was repeatedly immunized above & beyond the recommendation. I am ASD but was initially identified as ‘mentally retarded’ at 7 years old. Due to the accompanying atypical Hyperlexia, I was dropped from SPED services when my reading ability was tested as HS graduate level while in the 2nd grade. I was left to flounder, which I did spectacularly.

Twenty-five years ago, today; my little girl died within 12 hours of being immunized with the HepB & DPT.

My 15 year old son regressed into severe autism at age 2, after receiving a catch-up dosing of immunizations previously held due to a strep infection.

See, I did indeed formerly vaccinate. I am a former-vaxxer. As far as I can tell, your Antivaccine are either people like me … Or people who don’t want to become like me.

How did your claim with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program go?

Also, have you signed up your family with the SPARK for Autism project yet?

Interesting that you are no responder and you children are super responders. A rare thing this, though not impossible.
Why did your daughter die ? Your pediatrician should have been more careful. A vaccine court case.
Your son had many other things than vaccination before his autism diagnosis. Why do you not claim one of them?

@CHRISTINE K – I HEAR YOU AND I BELIEVE YOU. The pack on this site are masters of gas lighting. They will completely ignore vaccination in the medical history and deny, deny, deny. It is really unbelievable. When backed into a corner, some will admit a small part of the population “one in a million” can be injured. From the Harvard Study, I know it is more due to under-reporting/no reporting. The benefits are grossly overstated and the risks grossly understated. Stay the course and keep telling your story.

@Christine K Vaccine encephalopathy cases are now known to be caused by a gene mutation (sodium channel gene). Mutation can happen after birth, so family history is not enough to reject this explanation.

@Aarno – “We postulated that cases of so-called vaccine encephalopathy could have mutations in the neuronal sodium channel alpha1 subunit gene (SCN1A) because of a clinical resemblance to severe myoclonic epilepsy of infancy (SMEI) for which such mutations have been identified.” The problem is they POSTULATE and COULD have mutations. Does not sound definite to me. However, MMR is known to cause encephalopathy. It is listed on the insert as a reaction.

Natalie White, while you might be satisfied by quote mining a 2006 paper, you would be better able to understand the evidence if you read the related papers that have accumulated since that date. For example, you might look at the quite varied effects of the more than 700 different mutations that have been identified in just one gene (SCN1A, which was mentioned in the Berkivic paper) that encodes a subunit of a multi-subunit ion channel that is one of a family of genes associated with various channelopathies.

The evidence is extensive. For example, it’s clear why the change in gene expression from the form expressed during fetal development and early infancy to the adult form is associated with the emergence of the phenotype associated with the mutation, which is often intellectual impairment +/- seizures. The existence of the genetically-determined condition may be revealed by fever that follows vaccination or natural infection. (Unvaccinated laboratory rats that are genetically engineered to carry such mutations suffer initial seizures when placed in warm water baths.) It seems certain that many families have been compensated by the Vaccine Injury Compensation program for their child’s mutation. (Too bad for the rats.)

Wiznitzer M. Dravet syndrome and vaccination: when science prevails over speculation. Lancet Neurol. 2010 Jun;9(6):559-61.

Berkovic SF et al. De-novo mutations of the sodium channel gene SCN1A in alleged vaccine encephalopathy: a retrospective study. Lancet Neurol. 2006 Jun;5(6):488-92.

Verbeek NE et al. Etiologies for seizures around the time of vaccination. Pediatrics. 2014 Oct;134(4):658-66.

Reyes IS et al. Alleged cases of vaccine encephalopathy rediagnosed years later as Dravet syndrome. Pediatrics. 2011 Sep;128(3):e699-70

All the more reason for you to sign up your family for the SPARK of Autism study.

Natalie White, while you might be satisfied by quote mining a 2006 paper

Without actually citing it.

In my experience it’s a minority of antivaxers who link personal or family health problems to vaccination. The majority base their opposition on hearing such stories, having a libertarian the-government-can’t-tell-me-what-to-do perspective, delusions about vaccines being unnatural, fear of needles and so on.

Antivaxers continually try to rebrand themselves as being “ex-vaxers” or “ex-vaccine”, as this article notes:

Such groups hate being termed “anti”-anything, even when it’s highly accurate to describe them as such.

@Natalie Can you cite Harvard study you mentioned ? There are lots of Harvard studies around, you know.

@Aarno – Thanks for asking. Page 6 – “Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of
ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events
and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or
slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. New
surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed. Barriers to reporting
include a lack of clinician awareness, uncertainty about when and what to report, as well as the
burdens of reporting: reporting is not part of clinicians’ usual workflow, takes time, and is
duplicative. Proactive, spontaneous, automated adverse event reporting imbedded within EHRs
and other information systems has the potential to speed the identification of problems with new
drugs and more careful quantification of the risks of older drugs.
Unfortunately, there was never an opportunity to perform system performance assessments
because the necessary CDC contacts were no longer available and the CDC consultants
responsible for receiving data were no longer responsive to our multiple requests to proceed with
testing and evaluation.”

The full report –

A. While the discussion of drugs gives number for serious adverse events, the 1% for vaccines does not, which means this refers to all adverse events – and there are good reasons to think mild ones are severely under reported, less reason to think severe ones are.

B. There’s no metodology or basis for that number here, and no way to assess its validity.

C. Also note that this report focused on improving the electronic system, and that since then VAERS made improvements to it anyway.

@Natalie “Preliminary data were collected from June 2006 through October 2009 on 715,000 patients, and 1.4 million doses (of 45 different vaccines) were given to 376,452 individuals. Of these doses, 35,570 possible reactions (2.6 percent of vaccinations) were identified. This is an average of 890 possible events, an average of 1.3 events per clinician, per month. These data were presented at the 2009 AMIA conference.”
From same report. 2.6 percent of vaccinations have any kind of reactions, which includes very mild ones. Seriously, do you think that people there do not read your links ?

@Aarno – I provided the link therefore I assumed it would be read. We can agree that injuries are grossly more prevalent than the standard “one in a million”. Plus, participants were only followed for 30 days after vaccination. Primary care and pediatricians especially are not filing a VAERS report 1.3 times a month on average. Vaccine injuries continue to be grossly under-reported.

…participants were only followed for 30 days after vaccination.

This is utterly laughable. Pure antivaxx bullshittery. 30 days is ample time for any vaccine induced injuries to manifest. Why would injuries take longer to manifest than that?

I know, Julian!
Even in Andy’s famously fabricated botch job,the “injuries” were shortly after the vaccines ( within 2 weeks?), not 30+ days BUT there ARE anti-vaxxers who maintain that damages occur much later although I’ve never seen data that support this. Confabulation EXISTS!

-btw- the reason most “injuries” aren’t reported is that they are self-limiting and minor- like a sore arm. I’m sure that the kinds of “damages” anti-vaxxers believe in- encephalopathy, death, loss of speech ASDs- would be reported.

We can agree


that injuries are grossly more prevalent than the standard “one in a million”.

What units are “grosslies” measured in? Please also convey your understanding of epidemiological prevalence without a random cut-and-paste job.

@Narad – From my understanding, the “one in a million” quote is referencing injured/dead patient cases that made it all through vaccine court and then were “awarded” a monetary compensation for the death/injury. The “one in a million” quote is misleading. 35,570 possible reactions out of 1.4 million doses. Too bad the CDC bailed on the study and comparison with VSD was never done. It seems like they really don’t want to know.

One per million refers injuries, like deafness caused by measles encephalitis. Mild rash is not an injury, though a parent may visit a doctor because of it.
Actually paper mentioned that mainly mild side effects go unreported.

In other anti-vax news…

Woo-meisters continue their protest against removal/ interference by social media ( see Mercola/ google, Adams/ everything) and true to form, Gary Null ( increases his rants against Wikipedia ( today; article./ show/ read, listen and laugh) by examining Dr Offit’s COIs:
he was paid MONEY for his vaccine. Even worse, his input is acceptable by Wikipedia editors on the topic of vaccines ( as opposed to Dr Humphries, Dr Sherry Tenpenny or Gary Null himself) proving that Wikipedia is BIASED** Dr O is revered by sceptics and SBM.
States and the FEDS should investigate Wikipedia’s and its slanted views that exclude woo. Wanted! for the Crime of Realism?

** towards reality, I’d say.

@Deni$eWalter$ – Your MO is so painfully obvious. You say practically the same thing in all your posts. Now run along. Don’t you have more important PFIZER business to handle or is this part of what you’re paid to do, Deni$e? I suppose it could be a coincidence but I doubt it.

First of all, spell my name correctly. There is no ‘S’ or ‘$’.
Like most of Orac’s commenters, I never received money for anything I’ve ever written on the internet. I own no shares in pharmaceuticals or medical companies although mutual funds I own ( in stocks/ bonds) may invest in some WITHOUT MY INPUT- like everyone else who owns mutual funds: these are small parts of large funds ( high tech, utilities, real estate and mortgages are more important).
I counsel women and potential students and get investment income.

Sometimes unpaid work and volunteerism get important jobs done.

Your MO is so painfully obvious. You say practically the same thing in all your posts.

Irony much, NataLIE?

Check stock analysts. Could you find a report saying that a company is going to earn a lot many because DENISE WALTER is blogging for them ?
Actually she do not want children die because of vaccine preventable diseases. Even brain injury is quite bad, it is not ?
As for Gary Null, he earns MONEY for pushing useless supplements. He will mislead critically ill patients, too.

@ Aarno Syvanen:

You’re right.
Also, I can talk about VPDs: my mother once made an appointment for me to get the new measles vaccine: I couldn’t get it because I got the measles first – and was sick for several weeks – or so my older cousins tell me as I don’t remember much.

For many years, I’ve listened to Null give bad advice to trusting people. By cloaking himself in manufactured credentials and false research, he convinces the unwary to disregard people like Orac – a frequent target of his attacks- and to buy his products and ideas.

Those I mention are up in arms because Google, Facebook, You Tube, Twitter and Wikipedia are FINALLY doing something.
Woo-meisters were able to advertise themselves and their products very easily and cheaply because of companies like the aforementioned. Now they will not have such an easy free ride. These entrepreneurs regularly seek out IT professionals as someone mentioned above- they are BIG business. Alt med supporters who talk about how Pharma shills live in riches should check out how their heroic truth tellers live- in villas, estates and expensive high rises- photos of their places are easily found –
thanks internet search engine.

“Could you find a report saying that a company is going to earn a lot (of money) because DENISE WALTER is blogging for them?”

They can’t earn max profits when they’re paying Deni$$e $50 a word to attack woo and promote vaccines.*

*I make $90 a word for similar activities payable in gold by the Pharmaluminati. Natalie can e-mail me for details on how she too can board the $hillbucks train (I’ll tell all for $200, a real bargain).

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