There are a number of hazards that come with blogging. Personally, I’ve experienced the odd legal threat and a whole lot of attempts to harass me at work, beginning in 2005, less than five months after I started this blog, and continuing to this very day. Then there was the time that Mike Adams, a.k.a. the Health Ranger (but more appropriately called the Health Danger) deciding to devote well over three dozen posts to smearing me with claims that I was somehow involved with Dr. Farid Fata, the Detroit area oncologist who bilked Medicare and Medicaid of millions of dollars administering chemotherapy to patients who didn’t need it, some of whom didn’t even have cancer. He even claimed to have reported me to the Michigan attorney general and the FBI for…well, it’s not clear what. My worst brushes with the law have been a couple of traffic tickets in my adult lifetime, the last of which I received something like 25 years ago. The smear campaign was obviously designed to try to intimidate me into silence.
And, yes, there is the occasional death threat, sometimes even credible-seeming.
So it is that I find myself in the strange position of feeling empathy for an antivaxer whom I’ve written about several times before for her advocacy of pseudoscience. I’m referring to Dr. Suzanne Humphries, who is understandably alarmed at an e-mail she received:
Dr. Suzanne Humphries, a well-known advocate for vaccine truth, received a heinous death threat in an e-mail message on the night of January 18th, 2018. The e-mail contained criminal references to torture and a mass shooting event. She has filed reports with both the police and FBI.
More importantly, Dr. Humphries has opted to be vocal about this e-mail. Before we get into the specifics, I reached out to Dr. Humphries. She wanted me to share this specific message with you.
“Dr Suz and Polly want you to know that we read and appreciate every scripture and prayer you have sent. We appreciate all the Godly and conventional support and advice we have been given. The enemy hates prayer more than anything. Prayer is stronger than the hatred of our enemies, and more powerful than the FBI, CIA, police, private detectives, all of which have been activated as well. Our minds are set on God, fearlessly, in faith, and we carry on.“
Awareness is the key – there is no need to suffer in silence. Most activists experience a certain level of harassment; however, this one clearly crossed a line. With that, you must be aware of the demented and sadistic threats to Dr. Humphries.
OK, full stop right here. If you’re a pro-vaxer and want to make death threats against anyone, even antivax loons like Suzanne Humphries, you are not on my side. I don’t care what your reasons are. I don’t care if you weren’t serious. I don’t care if it was your idea of a sick joke. I don’t care if you were just trying to rattle her (which you clearly succeeded in doing in a spectacular fashion in this case). I disavow you. I condemn you. I spit on you. I hope the authorities find you, even though I know the chances for a successful prosecution in these cases are low.
Now here’s the thing. I know of no pro-vaccine advocate who feels otherwise. I know of no one on our side who approves of behavior like this directed against antivaxers—or anyone else. We don’t want this sort of stuff being associated with our side, because it’s wrong. We don’t need it, because we have science on our side, and anything like this hurts our cause, not helps us. If you don’t believe me, I reproduce the email in its entirety, given that everyone else seems to be doing it:
I’m gonna f#cking murder you, you stupid f#cking c#nt. I’m just letting you know, just to let you know that when it happens, you were f#cking warned bitch. You’re always puttin your location out there, so it’s real f#cking easy to get to you. I have a nice beautiful Desert Eagle that’s gonna be used on you. So keep thinkin all your health sh#t is gonna help you, cuz guess what, c#nt, it’s not gonna help you live another f#cking day.
I’m gonna step right out from the pedestrians on the street and blast you right in the f#cking chest. Not the head, cuz I want you to squeal, bitch. I’m gonna make you f#cking squeal and shake on the ground, flailing, bleeding out. I’m gonna kill as many of you f#cks as I can before I go down. You’re done bitch, do you understand me?
I’ve thought about how to do it for a while, and I have it pretty much down. I want to pull you off the road and torture you to death, but it’s just too f#cking hard to pull off. Another idea I had is when you’re doin one of your live things, I want to walk right to the door and shoot ya live on camera, so everyone sees you f#cking begging, c#nt, you’re gonna f#cking squeal so hard, cuz I’m gonna hit you in the chest, then the legs bitch, to make ya suffer before I finish you.
I want everyone to see how you go. I f#cking promise you I’m comin bitch. I just gotta decide how I wanna do it. Maybe when you’re giving one of your dumb ass talks, I’ll go sit in the audience towards the back and do it. But it’s not easy to kill all your dumb c#nt friends that way. No, it’s pretty obvious to me that I gotta come to your f#cking autism sh#t center and shoot you right through the f#cking door when you’re on camera. That’s how I’m gonna do it.
I’m gonna kill every single one of you f#ckers. Do you understand me? I’m f#cking comin for ya. So be ready for it. I don’t wanna see any shock on your f#cking face when I’m at the door bitch. I’m [gonna] f#cking shoot right through that door with a shotgun c#nt, I’ll kill every single person in that house and then I’m gonna torture you good bitch. I’m gonna make you bleed til there’s nothing left of you, then finish you.
I just need to get a few things in order before I do it, but I’ve been wanting for a long time, and I’ve finally decided I have to do it, no more f#cking around. I want to make you scream so bad, to taste your blood and watch you scream bitch. I’m gonna kill you and I want you to know that when it happens, you could have done something. And you didn’t. That’s gonna be the best part you see, because I’m tellin you plain and simple. I’m comin now. Let’s see if you’re prepared when I get there for ya, or whether you look like a total deer in the f#cking headlights when I blow your f#cking head off.
See you in hell.
Yes, this is utterly vile and despicable, and it just goes to show that there are assholes and disturbed people everywhere, and not all pro-vaxers are pure in motivation and behavior. Regardless of where they came from, such threats deserve only our contempt. Even if this idiot was not serious and was just trying to frighten or rattle Humphries, he (and it’s almost certainly a he) deserves nothing but contempt.
On the other hand…
Am I alone in thinking it…odd…just how eager antivaxers are to publicize this? I’ve gotten the occasional death threat before, albeit, admittedly, none quite so long and extravagant. I’ve never publicized them. I rarely mention them. I know a number of skeptical bloggers who’ve had the same experience. I’ve known skeptics who’ve had stalkers. They rarely mention the issue.
Yet, here we have Suzanne Humphries proclaiming the issue to the world. We also have the Health Danger weaponizing this e-mail against me:
This threatening, psychopathic language, by the way, reminds me of Dr. David Gorski, an extremely dangerous, sociopathic vaccine-pushing doctor who viciously attacks and lies about anyone trying to expose the truth about vaccines. Dr. Gorski’s colleague, Dr. Farid Fata, was indicted by the FBI for cancer treatment fraud and is now serving 20+ years in federal prison. Dr. Gorski worked alongside this cancer fraudster and evil criminal in the Detroit area, with links to the Karmanos Cancer Centers.
Natural News has previously reported Dr. Gorski to the FBI and has named him as one of the six most sickeningly evil propagandists currently operating in the realm of medicine. He currently works for the Karmanos Center Center in Michigan and spends his work hours editing Wikipedia to savage “vaccine truthers” by posting false, defamatory and slanderous information on their Wikipedia pages. Dr. Gorski is a surgical oncologist who scars black women for profit and pushes deceptive cancer propaganda on the public, much like his colleague Dr. Farid Fata also did before he was arrested and indicted for multiple felony crimes.
These are all, of course, lies about me, as is the insinuation that I would ever write anything resembling this e-mail.
I despise whoever made these threats against Suzanne Humphries. I completely reject them and what they did. I wonder if Suzanne Humphries and Polly Tommey would do me a solid and do the same thing regarding Mike Adams’ campaign of lies and defamation against me.
I won’t be holding my breath.
Even so, I repeat to any of you on “our side” who think death threats, whether serious or not, are a useful strategy: Knock it off, you idiots.
157 replies on “Hey, my fellow pro-vax warriors, death threats are NEVER acceptable, mmmkay? Knock it off!”
Well said. Despicable and wrong, whoever made it, for whatever reason.
So, you think it “odd” that someone who’s been so threatened would actually want to expose the crime? HUH? Cuz I clearly see YOUR “logic” which says DON’T EXPOSE THIS GUY AND HIS CRIME as… ohh.. HOW should I put this….. somehow… “oddly…” complicit… in NOT wanting this crap to be fully exposed, seen by the light of day, by many eyes. Weirdness comes with every kind of degree. And degrees don’t make you “smart,” OR WISE. Our physicians are not the sharpest knives in the drawer any longer. Try poets and musicians– NOT corrupted by Big Pharma
Please put down the bag of glue.
Couldn’t agree more Orac.. there are many in the anti-vax sphere that I would freely admit to loathing. But threats of violence and death such as this e-mail are unacceptable, no ifs, buts, or maybes.
And is it a depressing indictment of the new low my faith in humanity has reached that I’m not in the least bit surprised to see that odious excuse for a human being Mike Adams exploiting the distress of one of his own in order to launch ad hominem attacks on you (complete with the oh-so-subtle inference that you were the author)
There is no limit to the depraved depths some people descend. Anti vaxxers may well use anything against you since their arguments are so weak and faulty and need bolstering with whatever mud they can find. We need not stoop to such a low level .Our weapons are immense though little parody and disrespect is good.
I agree that threats of violence and death should be denounced by all parties.
Having said that, I don’t for one second believe that email came from a pro-science, pro-vaccine advocate.
I call fake news.
Because a psycho pro-vaccine advocate would have a litany of semi-rational reasons that S. Humphries must be stopped and would focus some time on listing those reasons in an email threat as justification for their evil (re)action.
The presented email has exactly 0 reasons the author feels S. Humphries must be stopped. It merely repeats, over and over again, that the author is going to kill and torture Ms. Humphries. The author couldn’t find time to list even one reason they believe S. Humphries must be stopped.
It’s almost as if the email were written by an anti-vaccine activist who can’t find anything upsetting with anything she has written or done and they do not want to impugn Humphries by listing some common complaints about her dishonest and ignorant attacks on vaccine science and medicine in general. That would be too much negative info on Ms. Humphries to put into an email someone intended to publicize widely for the edification of the loyal anti-vaccine troops.
Obvious fake news is obvious.
(And if it isn’t fake – Cut it out. Nobody rational is going to support a delusional maniac who advocates violence… that’s the venue of the anti-vaxxers.)
Where in that e-mail is any statement that the author is a pro-vaxer, or that the author is threatening Humphries because of her antivax activities? For all we know, he/she is an angry ex-patient, or has a personal grudge unrelated to medical issues.
I suspect if this e-mail was faked by an antivaxer, it’d contain specific references to pro-vaccination positions in order to poison opinion against those who are pro-vaccine.
Regardless of motivation and whether it’s “fake news”, it should be treated as a criminal act and the author prosecuted appropriately.
That is vile; I’d be rattled too. The offence against Dr. Humphries is being compounded by people like Mike Adams though. I also don’t see how they have chosen to point the finger at a “pro-vaxxer”; it’s a despicable threat from an awful person. Period.
I absolutely agree with Dangerous Bacon. Also, why would anyone who is soooo angry, keep spelling f#cking with a #?
I had a death threat 10 years ago. I didn’t go blabbing it all over social media using it to my advantage.
It has a troll feel to me…the language is very strong yet the author doesn’t seem to have any (fantasized) relationship with Humphries, other than fantasizing about how to hurt her in specific but generic ways. As opposed to say, exposing her family to measles.
I wouldn’t assume that the person who wrote it is an anti-vax hoaxer though. I would guess it’s a vaccine rationalist who came across her name and decided to troll because she fits their definition of bad person/fair game.
This was my thought as well.
I do hope the cops find this person and charge them with making terroristic threats. Whoever did this deserves to be in jail.
Oh, I don’t disagree. This does have a trollish 4Chan feel, but the problem is: You never know. It could be legit.
When an anti-vax page was trolled and taken over by pro-vaccine people, the antivaxxers thought that I had something to do with it. I wrote a blog post about it, and they immediately thought it was me. So they spread my name, address and phone number on their other Facebook pages. That led to a very weird phone call from some dude in Texas. He warned me that Texas is an open carry state and that I shouldn’t go down there. I jokingly told him that I had to go to El Paso from time to time to visit family, and if I should call him to ask for permission at those times. He quickly reported to the FB group that it was me who called him and threatened him, which led to a couple of emails to the school (as I wrote in a previous comment).
Like others, I don’t think that this is a true “pro-vaccine” person making this threat to Humphries. It’s just my opinion, but this sounds like something else that she and her friends are trying to make hay from.
It reminds me of how Mike Adams and other antivaxers seem to think I have some magical power over Wikipedia. I haven’t even tried to edit Wikipedia in at least a decade. I still have an account, but I can’t remember the last time I logged on. It’s also not the account antivaxers think that it is.
We all know it’s Bonnie Offit that does all the Wikipedia editing.
I thought it was Kathleen Seidel and her husband.
Death threats are so unnecessary. Being Suzanne Humphries is a fate worse than death.
Maybe I’m just getting old; but nowhere in the despicable e-mail did the sender mention the “reasoning” behind it. No mention of Dr.Humphries position on anything, not her antivaccination position, not her support for homeopathy, nada. So, why automatically attribute it to a “provaccinationist”? It may well be some psychopath who e-mails at random to people he/she has seen on YouTube videos or elsewhere?
And though I totally agree with what you wrote, there have been many threats of violence against provaccine advocates that clearly indicated that the threats were from antivaccinationists.
I repeat, nowhere in the rant is there any indication what set it off. Too some extent your article reinforces those at Age of Autism by automatically assuming it was a “provaccinationists”, a demented one at best; but I repeat, nowhere in the e-mail does it mention anything about vaccines or Dr. Humphrey’s position on them.
Now that you mention it, this is a good point. It could just be a random nutter, but antivaxers have glommed onto it as having to have been a pro-vax advocate without any good evidence in the e-mail that it was.
Do we know this email actually was received and is not a hoax? It’s gotten to the point now that I’m not sure I’d believe a random asshole claiming to have received a threat; I find it absolutely impossible to extend the benefit of the doubt to this person, especially after her hyper-aggressive swing at Dr. Gorski.
I feel icky having this attitude, but I simply don’t trust people anymore – especially Ms. Humphries.
@ RJ. You say, “Do we know this email actually was received and is not a hoax? It’s gotten to the point now that I’m not sure I’d believe a random asshole claiming to have received a threat; I find it absolutely impossible to extend the benefit of the doubt to this person, especially after her hyper-aggressive swing at Dr. Gorski.
I feel icky having this attitude, but I simply don’t trust people anymore – especially Ms. Humphries.
DR Humphries MD did NOT take a swing at Orac. Where did Orac or anyone here, say that she did?
Are you another one, that can’t read?
It is not a hoax. You are welcome to check with the Austln police.
Suzanne Humphries might not have taken a hyperaggressive swing at me, but she has associated in promoting this with someone who did: Mike Adams:
Note the video.
@ Orac. You say, “Suzanne Humphries might not have taken a hyperaggressive swing at me, but she has associated in promoting this with someone who did: Mike Adams:”
Dr Humphries has been interviewed by just about every man and his dog, even in Europe. Does that mean that she is responsible for everything everyone that interviews her, say about you?
Tell ya what. Make her aware of it and see what she says. My guess is that she won’t say anything. I figure she’d respond better to someone on “her side.” If you’re not willing to do that, then I very well might contact her myself.
Humphries does attack Orac/David Gorski
Go to https://www.facebook.com/drsuzanne/posts/1704598043131563 where Humphries repeats the delusional Medical Conspiracy rant by Mike Adams.
As for Hilary Butler’s “As to a disgruntled patient, Dr Humphries’ career was exemplary and her patients loved her. She never had one complaint about her abilities or demeanor as a doctor.” Really, Butler knows every single patient that has ever been to Humphries? What an asinine statement; but typical of an antivaccinationist, absolutes without any proof.
And Orac, in a previous article you included actual comments threatening Dorit with physical violence; but even that person was clear why. I really think the threat Humphries and Age of Autism presents is some delusional psychotic, not a pro-vaccinationist.
There’s something you don’t hear every day. Any word on the putatively full E-mail? I just got in and am reading from thr bottom up.
First of all, all threats are wrong and brand the sender as unbalanced and dangerous.As if that would convince others to accept their position on a topic..
” Let’s prevent disease through vaccination and KILL doctors we don’t like!” Right., that’ll work.
I first read this at Natural News, then at Age of Autism and finally, heard it from Gary Null.
The tape got around the woo-esphere quickly.
” This threatening, psychopathic language reminds me of……” ( says Mike)
Does it? Actually there are people who can estimate who might write something based on their style, I would venture that Mike is not one of them.( to me, it sounds like something from a pulp fiction television show wherein the heroine gets a threat and presents it to detectives who then question her about her daily life and contacts) Would a person who publicly writes do something that might pin the threat on himself or herself?.
Of course people might try to hide their style as fiction writers do. Personally, it sounds staged to me but who can determine.-
it might be a really disturbed person who hates Dr Humphries for whatever reason ( including her anti-vax status), a misguided pro-vaccine person who wants to scare her or perhaps, someone on her side of the issue who wants to portray our side as mentally ill and violent. Who can tell. Maybe the FBI as in the Unabomber case.
Finally, one aspect of the message stands out: talk about guns. I have never heard of any sceptic talk about his or her guns.
Yet the writer even mentions one by name. Guns are a point of pride to many people including a few anti-vaxxers and health freedom people.
I really doubt that Orac and most of his minions have guns around.
Oh, I do. I enjoy target shooting. Loads of fun. I don’t talk about them here because gun control isn’t something Orac would normally address. It’s off topic, so I’ve never brought it up.
HOWEVER I remember a while back that some sceptics/ doctors complained when gun rights advocates didn’t approve of doctors asking patients about gun safety/ storage during exams as a health concern and wanted them to stop asking those questions.
Well, that’s a whole other kettle of fish.
Suffice it to say, doctors and nurses should be asking those questions. That isn’t about gun control. It’s about lifestyle modification, public health, and public safety.
Well, speaking for myself, i’ve Enough firepower to start or stop a revolution in a banana republic. Poking holes in a piece of paper shouldn’t be that much fun, but it is. Being the last male child in a long line of gun owners is one way to build up a collection of firearms, even if they aren’t the finest or most valuable in existence. Not a collectors piece amongst them, they have all been used (and some are very well used).
Back (somewhat) on topic –
Call the police, sure, let loose private detectives if you can afford it, and maybe the FBI will listen, but I doubt they would do more than that. But, seriously, the CIA? They wouldn’t be ‘activated’ even if the threat was real, and it came to pass.
It’s just one more reason I can’t take the loons seriously.
The CIA can’t operate on US soil. But it’s not surprising the conspiracy theorists think otherwise.
Somebody would have to have a heck of a bankroll to pay for private detectives.
It is not the CIA’s job to monitor and prosecute people who make death threats online. Local law enforcement and The FBI has that responsibility.
Ah yes, the reference to a Desert Eagle?
An iconic big handgun chambered with a big caliber, seen everywhere in video-games for the past 20 years, at least. Notably in the Hitman 47 series, and before that in some of the Fallout series.
One out of ten for originality.
The author of this letter is not just a creep, but also outdated. A wannabe tough guy. Oh, and a bully, obviously.
You know what is said about people who like to boast about their big gun 🙂
Like the BFG-9000 from the Wolfenstein series of video games…. does sounds like a wannabe bragging how big/tough/strong/whatever he is…..
I really doubt that Orac and most of his minions have guns around.
On the other hand, I haven’t used it in about two decades.
The person who sent the death threat could be a troll from someplace like 4chan. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of it being a troll.
I spit on you.
I agree with your condemnation of death threats, but, a spitting threat to prove a point is a nonsensical gesture and literary misstep.
The thought of you spitting on anyone for any reason is unimaginable.
You’re still made of snips & snails & puppy dog tails, Orac.
Are you still here? Could you not just f*** off a bit quicker?
The language in the message is clearly very highly contrived:
– apostrophes in the right places
– commas in the right places
– g dropped from carefully selected words: not from f#cking, flailing, bleeding, wanting but from putting, thinkin, doin, comin etc.
– you’re used properly instead of the too-common your
– cuz, ya, gonna, wanna
-nicely arranged in paragraphs
– “And you didn’t.” as a “sentence” for effect
This has clearly been written by someone capable of writing well, but with little bits of slangy stuff tossed in. Lots of us do that for effect in informal writing, but this is just way too consistent in use of very selective wrongness.
And as others have said, there is no reason given.
At this point, I don’t believe it.
Without full headers, I’m taking it the same way any competent abuse department would — as meaningless.
Hmph. I appear to have been banned by VaccineTwoof, although I’ll be damned if I can remember why, so I can’t ask for them. The comments are a thing to behold, though: Check this rambling out.
It goes on.
Whee! Lightning rods. Take that you acupuncturists!
Perhaps Orac should set up a mate-finders feature. We’ve recently had a couple of passers-through, and one would-be resident, who I’m sure would love to make the acquaintance of the author of that piece.
I’ll go ahead and be skeptical that this email wasn’t staged by one of her friends. Main reason is that I have never seen a pro-vaccine individual argue with anyone but science and a little name-calling at worst. It’s possible that it’s a violent family member or friend of someone who died as a result of their propaganda. Maybe it’s just a psycho who found a cause to target. If there’s any legitimacy to it, hopefully the person is found and punished. That being said…when most of what Humphries says publicly is a lie, I find it difficult to believe her. Additional evidence can, of course, change my mind.
The odds make it almost certain there is one screwed-up vaccination supporter that might send an email like this. But yeah, this is pretty atypical in obvious ways. It seems crazy, impossible, to imagine any considerable number of Respectful Insolence readers who need to be told they should not send death threats. Not everyone who comments here is the same, but on the whole this seems a notably non-violent lot of people.
I agree Orac, this is vile, and has no place in any environment. I too think it was written by a man, and a prudish man at that. Odd that anyone who tosses around threats of violence and makes liberal use of words like “bitch”, “cunt”, and “fucking”, can’t quite bring himself to spell those words out. I also agree that this is probably a not very convincing attempt to troll. I do hope that the writer is found and I am optimistic that he will be. No matter who wrote it, that writer needs to face legal consequences.
Anyone who values the side of science should feel obligated to speak up. Death threats are not ever okay. They seek to normalize a style of discourse that is fundamentally anti-scientific. Science thrives on reasoned argument and we must always be open to hearing what the other side has to say, even if we don’t agree. By making threats aimed at silencing others, we defeat the principle of peer review. And, science doesn’t happen without peer review. While I don’t agree with what they say, this does extend to encompass even antivaxxers… too bad that they never hear what our side of the argument is saying.
In addition, making a death threat makes it okay to make death threats. You cannot dehumanize another without setting the precedent that you yourself should be dehumanized. Our civilization does this too easily already, please don’t further it.
When the Senate today confirms Alex Azar, the former US president of Eli Lilly, as Secretary of Health and Human Services, the chiefs of the administration’s HHS, Food and Drug Administration, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and National Institutes of Health will all be advocates for vaccines–and there hasn’t been a even a murmur from the White House about vaccine safety beyond the normal regulatory oversight. Believers in “fake news” might wonder if some controversy might serve to distract the anti-vaxxers from their pathetic failure.
Well, I am seeing so AVers celebrating over Trump just creating the “Conscience and Religious Freedom Division” in the Health and Human Services (HHS) Office for Civil Rights. Heckinlively on Bolen Report is calling it a “nuclear bomb” that’s been dropped on vaccine mandates (thank goodness AVers don’t use violent hyperbole against us). I’m not sure how this is supposed to be their big victory, but it’s making the rounds.
“Dr. Suzanne Humphries, a well-known advocate for vaccine truth, …. ”
This statement, along with the vilification of Gorski written in response, makes me think that the threatening e-mail was cooked up by Humphries or one of her minions. jmo
There is no doubt that this is real. Dr Humphries has received a second much more graphic threat. This time the police and the FBI are taking it seriously.
There are many reasons that everyone who receives a death threat should not only go public with it, but produce the emails or letters; the police SHOULD be involved and that person prosecuted. The second threat will not be made public for good reason, which if you saw it, you would realise…
Going public, applies to the provaccine as well. If you have a death threat it should be produced, the police should be involved, and the person exposed, arrested and tried.
Many provaccine have “said” they have had death threats, but not one of them has produced the evidence. Instead, they are anecdotally used to impune the antivaccine. There has never been one prosecution. A detective who has seen both death threats and who has been involved in many death threats, has said that the second is the worst he has ever seen.
One of the commenters above (Zach) said, “That being said…when most of what Humphries says publicly is a lie, I find it difficult to believe her.”
if that is your belief, then go through every one of her videos, take the science she provides, and prove that “most” of what she says is a lie.
What I find most astonishing about many comments here, is that none of you can express agreement that death threats are wrong without essentially demonising someone, albeit in a more “civilised” way than the person who wrote the two threats did.
To those who stated inanely, “who would spell fucking with a #” – he didn’t. Mr Insolence editted the email.
These threats are not the words of a country-hick hillbilly. The person was smart enough to feed them through a proxy server and a VPN. Linquistic analysis clearly shows a person of high intelligence unsuccessfuly attempting to portray himself as someone he is not. To suggest he is not provaccine is also inane. That he is provaccine has been made very clear.
As to a disgruntled patient, Dr Humphries’ career was exemplary and her patients loved her. She never had one complaint about her abilities or demeanor as a doctor. Her history then, was putting her patients above herself, and her history now, is putting the truth as she sees it above herself.
Why has this threat been made public, and the second one, been spoken about? It’s the right thing to do. Everyone who receives a death threat should expose them.
So a question for all you people who sneeringly assert it’s fake news and created to garner sympathy. If you – or even say – your wife, received this threat above, or the second which was far worse and much more detailed and graphic to the point where it horrified a detective…., why would you stay silent? What would silence bring you?
Just say these threat were carried out and they had not been made public? Would you damn her for that too?
Why does your condemnation of a multiple felony act, have to come with yet more nastiness of it’s own?
Uh, Hilary. Just because we don’t choose to put threatening emails we’ve gotten on line doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. Do you think Rene, Orac, Dorit, Paul Offit and others involved police just for fun? Shall I post the email I got that, since I turned down meeting this person, threatened to rape me and choke me to death?
OK, Suzie H got another more violent email. She’s a public personality, with a youtube channel. A lot of very mentally ill persons attack public characters, whether they warrant it or not.
I would not send an email of that type. I would never threaten someone with violence. Most people don’t. On the other hand, many of us can go to Book-of-Face and point out all the anti-vaxxers threatening people with violence. They dox people who oppose them, threaten them, call their employers, family, friends. All documented with screenshots and paper trails.
The most violent thing I’d do that would affect people like Suzie H would be recommend people looking for a health care provider see a REAL doctor who uses science-based medicine instead of quackery. So I’d hurt her bottom line.
Oh, and let me add, before people call me out on it. Yes, I know Suzie H has a medical degree. But in my mind, she’s given up all credibility with her quackery. So again, I don’t consider her a REAL doctor, any more than I consider Andy W a real doctor or I would use the correct honorific.
I would like to point out that most violent people are perfectly sane, and most of us mentally ill people are not violent in the least, and in fact are often more conscientious and well-behaved than mentally healthy people.
(I have been badly behaved before, but never violent.)
Ah, that is a name I have not seen for quite a while:
“A few years ago New Zealand’s favourite anti-vaccination liar, Hilary Butler, called me an “emotive lunatic” in a letter to the British Medical Journal’s web site.”
Hilary doesn’t like people with mental health problems, it seems to me, in my opinion, etc.
@ Rene Najera,
How droll…did you read the whole stream of BMJ e-responses refered to? You do know, that they had to conform to certain standards of fact and conduct I presume? Otherwise they aren’t put up. If you did read them, I’m surprised you brought that irrelevant piece of information to this discussion….
I’m surprised you strung a few words together into actual sentences, so…
. The writing does not show high intelligence if the intent was to portray itself as not. Either that or said person is just really, really incompetent. No one with the slightest shred of awareness of how kooks and persons with limited writing skills actually write would attempt to pass that piece off as the work of such a person. It could be a deliberate pretense of pretense, crafted to try to implicate someone else – which of course is what has been suggested.
It most assuredly is not clear from the email reproduced here. I will not accept you assertion without evidence.
Pretty crass attempt at one-ups-manship. Dr. Offit, Orac, Prof. Reiss, and many others have received death threats. Spare me the Pollyanna routine since your pals over at the AVN routinely post death threats and vile imagery to people they don’t like. You should see the disgusting graphic comments I receive on my blog. I just don’t swoon and make myself the centre of attention over it.
How so? There is nothing in that threat to suggest any motive.
Bullocks. Threats are universally-derided by us. I don’t suppose you are admonishing those who are pointing fingers at any of us. Nah, of course not, double-standard all the way.
Ask yourselves that being the charming bunch you are.
I don’t see any nastiness whatever. I see some skepticism; if the police really are involved I’m somewhat less skeptical. I think some people cannot distinguish disagreement from nastiness, and this group largely coincides with the anti-vaxxers. Thus, when they disagree, they frequently are nasty; when presented with polite and rational disagreement, they interpret it as nasty; when presented with slightly snarky counter-arguments, they pretend someone is oppressing them.
Dr Humphries has received a second much more graphic threat. This time the police and the FBI are taking it seriously.
Am I to understand that the police and FBI were not taking the previous threat seriously? Did they think it was fraudulent?
@ Smut Clyde, Did you watch the video where she talked about it? They behaved just like some of you here, and said, “Dr Humphries do you have a disgruntled patient?” and closed the case without even reading the email. Seemingly they thought is was just someone blowing smoke.
@ Helianthus, you appear to be under informed. “Mrs” Humphries is Dr Humphries MD, and her board certification page shows that she is board certified in both Internal medicine and Nephrology.
@ Dangerous Bacon you ask” **wonder what she charges for her Skype consults. Remember, this is someone touted by her fans as giving up a lucrative medical practice, in order to spread the magic healing word of woo.”
1) she does not use woo.
2) many of her skype calls are free. If you want to know her fees, then ask her.
You also ask, “Remember not long ago when Del Bigtree, the “Vaxxed” producer encouraged fellow antivaxers to take up guns against their opponents?” No, but he’s a loose cannon just like a lot of you here, so nothing would surprise me, but the question is, did anyone follow through with his hot-tempered comments? Did anyone get sent emails or letters which are felony offences? If so, were they handed over to the police? What was the result of the investigations? Were the stalkers prosecuted?
@ Science Mom. You say, ” Dr. Offit, Orac, Prof. Reiss, and many others have received death threats”
Then why did they SEEMINGLY not take them to the police and instigate action?
You say, “Spare me the Pollyanna routine since your pals over at the AVN routinely post death threats and vile imagery to people they don’t like.”
Again, where is the proof and the prosecutions that AVN are routinely posting death threats and vile imagery? At least Meryl Dorey provided the proof of the pro-vaccine vile death threats to the police and can prove it, even though they refused to follow through…
Oh and you mean just like all the vile comments the provaccine are now spamming about Dr Humphries all over facebook about these death threats I see some quite well-known names positively revelling in the ideas portrayed…?
you say ” To suggest he is not provaccine is also inane. That he is provaccine has been made very clear.
How so? There is nothing in that threat to suggest any motive.”
Are you blind? Her public talks are on vaccine issues, and he specifically mentions them and stalking her in them….
You say “I don’t suppose you are admonishing those who are pointing fingers at any of us. Nah, of course not, double-standard all the way.” Report it to the police and press for prosecution and then I will. Until then it’s just more smoke blowing.
You say “Ask yourselves that being the charming bunch you are.” Me in particular sciencemom? Me? Threaten anyone? Really? You’ve known me for over a decade, and baldfaced lie like that?
@ Smut Clyde, Did you watch the video where she talked about it?
Of course I didn’t. Life is too short to waste on YouTube bandwidth-blocking piffle. If someone can’t express their message in a faster channel of communication then I figure that it’s devoid of information content.
They all have taken the appropriate action. Just because they don’t go running through the streets in dramatic fashion, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
The only endpoint of interest to you anti-vaxxers is death and now prosecutions are the only proof of threats. Ridiculous. Reasonable Hank has a catalogue of your mates’ activities: https://reasonablehank.com/ which none of you ever admonish.
Scroll up and have a look at my first comment here. Making threats is not acceptable; celebrating threats against anyone is not acceptable. I can’t stop stupid people from doing stupid things on the internet but I can register my disdain. I do and I have.
But vaccines nor any particular issue is even mentioned. The mention of her talks is in regards to a place to fulfill the threat, not as a reason to threaten her. The only honest reading of that threat is that neither you nor I can say what the motive is.
Oh please, you’re clutching your pearls so tight you’re cutting off your air supply. Your group as a whole utilises extreme rhetoric and tactics. Threats are par for the course and while I have never seen you personally partake, you do nothing to separate yourself from them.
Could you cite some actual source of expertise in this matter that says you should go public when you receive a death threat? You do understand that going public might actually add fuel to the fire of the criminaly creep that is making these threats against Dr. Humphries–as in “look how badly I rattled my target…I think I’ll do it some more…”? I reported the threat I received 10 years ago to the police–asking them for advice on how to protect myself, taking their advice–and moved on.
@ Christopher Hickie, you ask, “Could you cite some actual source of expertise in this matter that says you should go public when you receive a death threat? ….I reported the threat I received 10 years ago to the police–asking them for advice on how to protect myself, taking their advice–and moved on. ”
So you took advice? What makes you think a Dr would not take advice? And was your threat even half as bad as the two Dr Humphries has received?
You actually miss the point. If anyone is going to publicly allege that they have had DEATH threats. . . AS many here have alleged in the past and on this thread . . . the allegations should not just be in the form of anecdotal unproveable drive-by sound-bites.
What is alleged here by many people, is that these threats to Dr Humphries, are all made up by either the anti-vaccine movement, or Dr Humphries herself. No-one has anything to gain by making up threats. But seemingly people here think they have something to gain by making such claims.
Anyone here who thinks that these threats were made up, should perhaps ring the Austin Police and FBI and ask them if the threats actually exist. They have all the evidence.
Here’s the issue you’re having here, Hilary.
Anti-vaxxer’s have been crying wolf for so long, and playing victim for so long, rational people don’t have much patience left for them.
You should be thanking Orac. He took the effort to decry a threat, and didn’t ask if it were real or not.
But there’s really no point in calling the Austin police. They’re not in the habit of discussing criminal investigations with every Tom, Dick, and Harry.
If they make an arrest, get back to us. You can crow about it then, if you think that’s a good idea.
@ panacea, I have never cried wolf, ever.
Thank you Orac. At least you took the effort to decry a threat, and didn’t ask if it were real or not.
But no thanks to any of your aggressive commenters who say it’s not a death threat, and that it’s all just made up decorated with vitriole.
And yes, I’m well aware that the police won’t divulge details. Having worked in the Police myself (though countries do vary) we did at least verify if there was a bona-fide complaint.
You clearly miss my point, though perhaps I was too subtle in the implication of the advice I took. Part of that advice was not to go public on the threat, which directly contradicts what you claim people in this situation should do. I’m only talking about mine because what I’m seeing regarding Dr. Humphries broad banding her threat all over the internet seems like the worst thing to do. Again, the type of scum who make these threats enjoy seeing they’ve rattled you. Please don’t come in here and say that just because we pro-vaxxers didn’t go onto you tube and put our threat in print online all over Facebook that we are liars just making sh*t up, esp since when you make a police report, like I did, it becomes a publicly accessible document that can be found by anyone.
Dr. Hickle; I get what you’re saying. In fact, I fear I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets more of these sorts of threats, given her reaction.
Publishing a death threat while the investigation is on-going seems to me to be extraordinarily foolish, unless the investigators have given it very careful consideration and concluded that it might bring further communication that would help in catching the perpetrator. Publishing it after the suspected perpetrator has been charged could be useful to help find any others who were targeted by the same person.
The fact that the first message apparently came via a VPN and anonomizer means absolutely nothing other than that the sender is not a complete dolt. Anyone with the slightest wit can find all the necessary tools and instructions on the web in minutes.
Austin? Did Humph lose her nephrology gig?
There most certainly is without the full E-mail, imbecilic invocations of VPNs and “proxy servers” notwithstanding.
No, those were in the “original,” which was conveniently linked to by “Mr Insolence.”
@ Narad – ironic that so many have the funny idea that all original documents etc, blah blah … should be provided to them…. one minute people are saying that death threats should never be spoken of, and the next that everything should be laid out like a smorgasbord. What a contrary bunch you lot are.
So you’re just iignoring your lie?
@ Narad, I didn’t lie.
Actually, it was my assumption that Suzanne Humphries and Polly Tommey edited the e-mail before posting its contents, Maybe I was incorrect, but it seemed like a reasonable conclusion.
@ Orac, you said, “Actually, it was my assumption that Suzanne Humphries and Polly Tommey edited the e-mail before posting its contents, Maybe I was incorrect, but it seemed like a reasonable conclusion.
Quite a reasonable conclusion.
It wouldn’t be a subject of discussion if one of your commenters hadn’t “assumed” that what was released publicly was what was written in the email, and then inferred that the email was rubbish because no-one would write the F word with a #.
The discord here, isn’t from you, Orac.
You article was reasonably paced, and for that, I thank you.
I will not be answering any more comment, or bait, because this is degenerating into a fishing expedition so answering further, is a waste of breath.
Narad, surely you don’t mean to suggest that the bringer of The Truth is wrong. Say it ain’t so! (said in the voice of Roger Rabbit).
You mean, aside from claiming that “Mr Insolence” redacted the E-mail?
Oh, the quasi-literate irony.
I can’t help but note that you completely ignored my suggestion that maybe you could see what Suzanne Humphries thinks of Mike Adams’ insinuation that I sent her the threatening e-mail. Given that you don’t seem to want to ask her that question, I very well might contact her myself to do so. Maybe I’ll write her an open letter or maybe I’ll do it in private. But I probably will do it.
@ Hilary Butler:
You wrote: “As to a disgruntled patient, Dr Humphries’ career was exemplary and her patients loved her. She never had one complaint about her abilities or demeanor as a doctor.” Unless you personally know every single patient that Humphries has ever treated, you statement is just plain idiotic. But it doesn’t surprise me as it reflects the world of fantasy antivaccinationists live in. A world where actual verifiable facts aren’t needed.
So, despite never mentioning vaccines even once, positively or negatively, the writer of the e-mail has demonstrated themselves quite irrefutably to be on the side of vaccines? I would adore it if you would be kind enough to explain the logic which leads you to that conclusion. I am quite sure it will be a fascinating masterpiece of solid deduction which will at no point be dependent upon jaw-droppingly absurd stereotyping.
Careful not to conflate the two events here: the death threat message, and Mrs Humphries response to it.
A common trait of the more vociferous antivax advocates is their claim to victimhood: they see nebulous Big Pharma conspirators everywhere (including the guy washing the wall next to their protest), and they cry “bully” whenever a pro-vaxer dare to post some non-threatening message in the thread of an antivax website.
So, when receiving, for once, an honest-to-god death threat, of course they are going to make it public. It validates everything they said or thought about us (see any of Orac’s “how they view us”). I don’t see this part as suspect.
As for why Mrs Humphries or others may think it’s about their stance on vaccination:
For one thing, if they define themselves as fighting for the True ™ about vaccines, then of course any trouble they get will be related to their chosen cause. It’s always the vaccines.
For another thing, this disgusting letter does have some sentences which could point at Mrs Humphries’ social advocacy. I’m notably thinking of this passage:
The mention of her female friends implies social lectures rather than professional ones (like a teacher, I mean). Unless she is giving public lectures on topics other than vaccination, then that seems to be a determining factor.
(Sidenote: as others readers have already pointed, the author of this… thing… sounds like having issues with women. He seems to enjoy to wallow in gendered insults)
tl;dr: I wouldn’t be so quick as dismissing this letter as coming from outside of the antivax population. There are sick people everywhere.
At the very least, I have no trouble accepting Mrs Humphries’ claims that this is the genuine article: a letter meant to threaten and frighten her.
That being said, I’m not ruling out other possibilities. I would just caution to wait for more data.
…they see nebulous Big Pharma conspirators everywhere(including the guy washing the wall next to their protest),
But, but, they were almost right. It was just that he was a Russian KGB agent not an FBI agent.
Re KGB–yes I know.
In my usual way I’ll address several points at once.
First, I will add my condemnation of whoever wrote that for whatever reason. It is just plain awful, and I agree the style is just off enough to suggest someone with a fair education trying to sound tougher and more unhinged that he/she probably is in daily life.
Second, I too own a firearm. It’s an ancient Sharps carbine that has been in family for at least a century. However, the barrel is just enough out off true that if I attempted to fire it, it would probably take my face off. Besides which, I have no idea where to get percussion caps.
Third, as to legal action, if enough pressure is put on the appropriate authorities, something may be done. Dennis Markuze/”David Mabus” is a case in point. PZ Myers was a favorite target. Even though he did very little to disguise his identity, he got away with it for a very long time. Multiple law enforcement agencies refused to act even though his name, picture, and address in Montréal were well known. It took a threat to a Canadian journalist to get some action. He publicized it, and when the Service de police de la Ville de Montréal got something like six thousand emails demanding action in just a few days, they finally acted. The courts have followed up on his compliance with their orders, and he has been re-incarcerated a few times for probation violations (Incidentally, for any French speakers here, a Montréal paper used a beautiful epithet to describe him which has no exact English equivalent: cyber-emmerdeur.).
Anyway, while the case was different, persistence, patience, and publicity can get some action.
“Unless (Humphries) is giving public lectures on topics other than vaccination, then that seem to be a determining factor.”
According to her bio on the Riordan Clinic* website (she apparently is one of their featured speakers):
“She also consults worldwide**, via Skype, on nephrology, internal medicine and issues such as infectious disease. She has extensive experience lecturing on vaccination, vitamin C and holistic health.”
So it would be hard to rule out the possibility that she encountered an unbalanced individual in the course of lecturing on topics other than vaccination.
*this is a “holistic” clinic in Kansas with 2 MDs, 2 NDs and a chiro on their “medical staff” (apologies for the “scare quotes”). They offer naturopathic and other services including IV vitamin C, ultraviolet blood irradiation (how natural), infrared breast thermography, bioidentical hormones and of course their own private brand of supplements (like the NNNinny, they have an online store).
**wonder what she charges for her Skype consults. Remember, this is someone touted by her fans as giving up a lucrative medical practice, in order to spread the magic healing word of woo.
Groupon was running a special on holistic health certification for only $5.00 instead of the usual $800+ the course usually costs.
Why settle for Google U when you can get a “real” certification?
I just remembered this so I looked it up:
Mike has a history of misattributing malfeasance to Orac-
from his Truth Wiki on Dr DHG:
“ORAC, Respectful Insolence April 20, 2012″
Mikey makes it sound as if Orac himself ( not a commenter) ” advocated impersonating vaccine injury parents” and writing bizarre stuff whilst self-identifying as anti-vaxxers as a way to sabotage their cause. including using an untraceable address.
In reality, Orac loudly called the commenter out as did many minions including myself in a post and in comments.
Mike quotes the COMMENTER addressing me ( ” @ Denise 76).as if it was Orac. It wasn’t. It was a guy who called himself MarcStevensIsInsane IIRC/
Mike assumes his faithful flock are too lazy( or enraptured) to look it up.
Orac, you say, “Am I alone in thinking it…odd…just how eager antivaxers are to publicize this? I’ve gotten the occasional death threat before, albeit, admittedly, none quite so long and extravagant. I’ve never publicized them. I rarely mention them. I know a number of skeptical bloggers who’ve had the same experience. I’ve known skeptics who’ve had stalkers. They rarely mention the issue.
Yet, here we have Suzanne Humphries proclaiming the issue to the world…”
It doesn’t seem that long ago that Hollywood women never publicized their concerns for whatever reason. It’s been said that for evil to succeed, it is only necessary for good people to remain silent (or words to that effect.)
Any threatening or bullying of this nature should be exposed and prosecuted.
Some things, such as revealing threats such as this, should transcend differences in politics, science or ideology.
It’s not OK to remain silent and let bullies bully.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention…
Dammit. I can’t reply to JP below her comment.
Sorry, JP, but I consider you sane. (sends internet waves which can be accepted as waves, hugs, shoulder pats, whatever).You have mental health issues. But you are aware of them, and try very hard to not hurt your fellow humans. I can’t ever imagine you would write a letter threatening someone like that. Many, many people have mental health issues. I’m one of them.
To be honest, I don’t consider violent people sane. They may not have diagnosed mental illnesses, but they are not sane. They may be fully aware and acting out of intent – but again, I don’t consider them sane. I am NOT saying they are insane by medical definition, i.e. “not guilty by reason of insanity” insane – but no normal person would wish such actions on another. If I was religious, I’d say they were evil and content to be so, but I’m not. I stand by what I said.
It wasn’t so long ago when Polly was quite happy to host anti-vaxers on the Vaxxed bus that issued death threats against vaccine advocates.
Death threats aren’t cool no matter who issues them. The Vaxxed crew only seems bothered when they receive them apparently.
Kelly: I never saw those clips UNBELIEVABLE!
In the first one, Lindernan wants ” retribution and … revenge for his son”
which sounds similar to some at AoA who want those who “destroyed” their children to “pay” or be jailed
-btw- Linderman used to be featured at Mike’s place and TMR: so they know about his bent.as do Polly & Co.
Hilary Butler: “Many provaccine have “said” they have had death threats, but not one of them has produced the evidence.”
Remember not long ago when Del Bigtree, the “Vaxxed” producer encouraged fellow antivaxers to take up guns against their opponents?
“Anyone who believes in the right to bear arms. To stand up against your government. I don’t know what you were saving that gun for then. I don’t know when you planned on using it if they were going to take control of your own body away.
It’s now. Now’s the time.”
Oddly, I don’t recall Del’s fellow antivaxers calling him out for encouraging violence.
While (as I indicated earlier) I don’t think the e-mail to Humphries was cooked up by antivaxers, there’s a history of antivaxers publicizing supposed threats against them by pro-immunization advocates, only to have their claims blow up in their faces. (Perhaps a poor choice of words, as the case I’m thinking of was in 2015 when Sherry Tenpenny et al canceled an Australian speaking tour citing bomb threats by “anti-free speech terrorists”. It turned out a bomb threat was made against the operator of a venue where she was scheduled to appear, only the threat was made by an antivaxer upset that the speech was being canceled.
More recently (a week ago, in fact), Orac banned an antivaxer after she threatened violence against a pro-vaccine commenter here (in the first Colton Berrett thread). Did any of the other antivaxers who showed up in that thread to hurl invective criticize their fellow antivaxer and/or apologize for the violent threat? Nope.
So spare me the selective indignation, Hilary.
On the other hand, there’s been uniform condemnation from regulars here, directed at the person who sent the e-mail to Humphries, whatever his/her motivation.
Compare and contrast.
Oh, but in Hilary’s opinion, Del is a loose cannon. This guy who threatened not-acting-like-a-Doctor Humphries is not, natch. This guy is the real deal, just like all of us, and a clear example of how people who advocate for a science-based approach to immunization always have and forever will act towards those who are “skeptical” of vaccines, don’t you know?
In a pig’s arse she got that death threat from a pro-vaccination troll. Anti-vaxxers are always whining about how oppressed and persecuted they are. She fabricated that threat from whole cloth from sympathy points.
True, I don’t know that for certain, but a combination of factors gives me reason to believe it.
Okay Gorski. I’m sorry to hear about you threats; that is a bit over‐the‐line, so‐to‐speak. The worst that I will ever do is threaten to sodomize people with vegetables, vide infra:
I’m comin’ for ya’ Gorski! Got a 12‧oz jar of coconut oil and an eggplant!—for starters! After that, you’re going to get the goose squash and the pineapple!!
Did you hear that Gorski? You’d better lay‐off the pro‐safety scientists and become a champion for better vaccine production techniques; otherwise, you could become a victim of vegetable assault.
… what kind of an idiot do you have to be to think “I don’t post death threats, I post rape threats!” is funny? Or even acceptable? They are both confessions of miserable, disgusting failure. “I can’t support my position with evidence and logic, so I’ll support it with terrorism instead! Everyone should do what I say because the alternative is that I’ll hurt them!” I’d think that “Jakester” was the latest handle of Jake Crosby except I have trouble believing that even Jake Crosby with all his bragged-about social deficits could possibly fail to understand what a nuclear-powered foot-bullet this rape threat ‘joke’ is.
See here and the two following comments. I’m really starting to think there were two Fυcklesworths in play.
That Suzanna Humpries’ death threat was reminiscent of ex‐Vietnam angst dripping wet with trailerpark, but it probably had actually come from the mind of an upper‐mid‐level executive at Merck headquarters.
I don’t believe this is a genuine email. I’m sure this is a made up piece of anti-vaxxer nonsense. I received an email from Meryl Dorey, stating that Humphries has refused to release the actual text of a second email on the grounds that it’s too vile. As a professional swearer, I’d be interested to see what’s any viler than the text of the supposed first email. I call horseshit on the whole thing.
This is a complete fabrication – anyone can do it. Watch: I had five anti-vaxxers come round my house last night and threaten to sexually assaut me with a variety of household implements.
That isn’t true either.
(If this whole affair is genuine, I apologise, and would like to state that threats of violence are never acceptable)
Brian Deer is going to get the prickly cucumber—with canola oil!
Panacea mentioned “crying wolf”
I think that I have become rather inured to talk of threats by particular people** because they do it so much:
one of the idiots I survey does a long and winding spiel about being threatened by black ops, having his career sabotaged, book deals and television shows falling through unexpectedly and lately, being hacked so that his internet radio show doesn’t work. Actually, I doubt most everything he says. It has an air of ( really bad) noir with details that seem apropos to his writing abilities.
Usually, he derides the appearance and/ or motivation of the attackers: a “fat, bald” man in a tiny car, unrequited love from an unappealing woman, greedy pharma ops or minions of the Clinton cartel ((shudder)) because he tells the TRUTH.
Similarly Mike Adams speaks of his need to be armed to the teeth and do target practice. His journalism has ruffled the feathers of the mighty vultures.
It ain’t easy being investigative journalists specialising in nutrition and geopolitical skullduggery.
More mildly, anti-vaxxers discuss how they are disregarded by the media : Kim Rossi of late has asked why the women’s marches leave out anti-vax mothers like her.They must be against women. And of course her need to be a double black belt in order to fell safe. ( @ kimrossi1111)
** I’ve never heard anything like this from Dr Humphries before although I’ve heard her talk about vaccines but she appears in aforementioned idiot’s so-called documentaries
-btw- when I was much younger someone threatened me with physical harm so I listen to women who say they also have..I have also been trained in working with people who have suffered assault.
As I write…
45 minutes in the Gary Null Show/ pr.fm / today( will be archived later if not cut)
Dr Suzanne H speaks live about the second threat (including):
–a video more vile than the last
–a photo of her with her eyes scratched out, splattered with “semen”
–threats against all who live in the “Autism Trust house” in Austin ( Polly etc)
— she works for them she says.
— she’ll be back on his show
The idiot host pimps his latest article about vaccines and the “deep state” and his latest film, free. He’s being hacked again
He’s fighting back.
Hoo boy that’s a lot of self-indulgent fappery. How do you listen to that on a regular basis? Again, nothing about motive which is very odd but these anti-vaxx conspiracy nutters don’t do themselves any favours by pointing the finger at pro-vaxxers, let alone naming specific people.
If the local police aren’t looking into this then:
The threats aren’t deemed credible by them
The threats have been falsified and they won’t go to the authorities for obvious reasons.
The threats are real but for some reason they haven’t gone to the authorities because they are thick.
As they have setup a GoFundMe in response to the first threat then this leads me to believe that it’s a scam.
Even if the threat is real they sure know how to monetise anything.
Oh, great. And I read in the NY Times Tuesday Science section that polio is down in Pakistan. BUT: a woman and her sixteen year old daughter were both shot in the head by someone on a motorcycle for the “crime” of vaccinating children for polio:
Yeah. So Suzie and Polly have a real fear. [end sarcasm]
I was trying to give those guys a little of the benefit of the doubt. I really was. But a GoFundMe page to monetize the threat? I’m starting to come around to the thinking of those of you who labeled this a scam.
@ Science Mom:
I am somehow immune to BS and can tolerate mountains of it. I believe that it is heredity in action as I am descended from long lines of business people on two continents who had to deal with loads of garbage for generations,
So I figure I save others the pain and effort of wading through these swamps.
I think the public should know about these scammers.
@ James Peters:
Go Fund Me! What do you know!
Seeing who is involved I wouldn’t be surprised if a documentary were already in production.
Poor orac way to make this post about you.
Scam, and the authorities may agree. They no longer routinely investigate some violent flamers unless there is a specific, directed threat that prosecutors could reasonably get a conviction on. An FBI agent told me years ago that in reality they also need some very clear evidence to open an investigation for this kind of thing, and once they do of course they are the FBI and will never release information until it’s finished and some kind of action is being taken. I went to them about a very unbalanced young guy who was making vague threats against a legislator on a board, and they told me that until they had actionable information, it was not in their domain, nothing they would do, etc. They deal with such crazies all the time. Don’t know whether that’s still strictly true.
GoFundMe? Pfft, this is fake. Somebody is creating this drama for publicity and to step up some kind of pro-vax/anti-vax war because the public isn’t riled up enough for their cause. Follow the money, of course. Someone could get a lot of very profitable PR mileage out of something like this.
Real or fake, I condemn whoever wrote it. We support vaccines because the evidence shows they are extremely safe and save thousands of lives every year. Resorting to violence suggests a lack of confidence in that evidence.
But faking it might give ideas for some nut to follow through on. And it erects a further barrier to reasonable discussion of the issues.
Not that Suzanne Humphries is any model of that.
After clicking the links and watching the video, I was curious about the original video without the a Mike Adams wrap. Although she has 29 videos on YouTube with most on either her channel or Vaxxed TV, she didn’t post this on either channel. Instead we get the Mike Adams version.
I really wonder why she chose to do it that way.
I will say, Adams’ involvement and usual frothing-of-the-mouth seriously dampened my desire to keep playing the devil’s advocate in Dr Humphries’ favor.
If anyone is in any doubt as to Hilary Bitler’s impeccable credentials as a vaccine expert, you may want to take a look at my (sadly neglected) blog here:
It’s not quite in the category of death threats, but until today I was blissfully unaware that there is an antivaxer Enemies List, nearly 30,000 strong (presented by the folks at Things Anti-Vaxers Say):
Ostensibly this listing is being used to deny entry onto antivax loon-a-burger websites, or at least to alert the faithful that a pro-vaccine “troll” is posting (Burn the Witch!).
Congratulations to Dr. G, Dr. Hickie, Dorit Reiss, Rene Najera et al for being on the list.
And yes, I made it too*, though I’m somewhat disappointed that neither of my preferred pseudonyms are represented.
I’m on there too. Or at least somebody with my name and surname is (they’re both fairly common.) I think they pulled information from Facebook or something.
My name is less common and I’m listed under it, but not my pseudonym. I would guess they pulled some Facebook group membership lists.
The Bookface idea seems plausible, as my (now little used) Disqustink pseudonym isn’t there, but my (now entirely unused) FB one is.
I’d be disappointed indeed if I didn’t make the list. However, these people are idiots. I have better things to do than to join antivax FB groups or comment on antivax blogs, which is why I rarely do it unless it’s addressing me or something I wrote directly, such as when I commented on Suzanne Humphries FB page about her reposting Mike Adams’ lies about me.
Great! I’m still there! And under my full name too!
@ Julian Frost:
I’m not there. I am disappoint!
Not even under my very old ScepticD nym.
Well, I went back and listened to Null’s interview with Humphries and to Adams’ long NN one as well; I didn’t learn too much BUT
— she’s apparently in Austin now: Mike saw her “in studio”
— she says she works at Autism Trust
— she’s had incidents 7-8 years ago. Some of the details some dodgy: someone was IN her house and turned on gas but no break-in? Other stuff/ she told police. The timing is important because that’s when she switched over to anti-vax etc.
–she has a book about vaccines and an autobiography of her transformation
–the threats involved all who live at Autism Trust ( i.e. Polly’s house) including THE CHILDREN.
–she is religious
— she has been lecturing worldwide ( AUS, NZ, Scandinavia) so she’s a great threat to the Establishment
–these threats coincide with hacking to Null’s prn which leads him to conclude that it is the work of the deep state.
–Mike discusses how he has been targetted and how he protects himself
— lots of other details, trying to relate the current nonsense to past nonsense, e.g. Thompson, Wakefield being harmed
I swear these people NEVER stop!
Apparently it can be difficult to get official action taken against threatening individuals, at least in Australia.
Hi Dr. David Gorski. Please allow me to be honest with you, as that will allow us to have an open-minded exchange, if so you wish. Because you come across as an arrogant (maybe to hide blatant ignorance or intellectual dishonesty), you may decide that my input is not worthy and so you may not want to publish my comments.
I appreciate what you wrote in your article about the threat against Dr. Suzanne Humphries. However, in my opinion, you’re not being sincere, taking into account all you have said, and led your like-minded conventional sick-minded people to believe, about natural medicine and holistic practitioners, treating them as quacks, and giving the impression that science is what you guys, on the conventional corner, practise.
In my opinion, because you know very well that you guys practise fake science (either by ignorance or by greed and malice), and that you are now being irremediably exposed, you would prefer to see most of the holistic practitioners, who you see as a risk for your undisclosed agenda, dead. You even may want to see some of them left (just a few, not enough to threaten your greedy, dubious and malicious agenda), so you can have a punching bag to entertain yourselves and satisfy your perverted ego and inner ill-desire to have some enemies, so you can maintain some stimulation factor present to lighten up your sombre self-recriminating days. No matter what you say now, to impress some gullible naive folks, I do believe that you would rather see Dr. Suzanne dead than threatened. You exude hatred, despise, fear and dislike for the holistic natural practitioners, and for their supporters and followers. The threat just exposed you guys and made it rather difficult for you to hide your true nature. Dr. Suzanne is not only more honest than all you guys who refuse to change and practise the medicine of “first do no harm”. She is more much competent and science-driven than you. If you’re not an ignorant doctor, who, as a victim of the drug industry funding strategy, studied so much just to become irrational, we have to infer that you’re on the side of evil.
Actually, based on your seemingly dubious connection with the cancer industry and on what you yourself have written about cancer and holistic practitioners, you do not come across as someone who understands the real science, the real human biology, the real human physiology, the real human biochemistry, genetics and epigenetics. Your approaches to cancer indicates that you try to force the body to adjust to your theories and hypothesis, rather than work with the real human body, made of real natural ingredients, like water, air, foods, sun rays, or natural amino-acids, vitamins, minerals, fats, sugar, phytonutrients, oxygen, etc. You seem to have no clue as of what our body is made of, so much so that you, beside embarking on psychoscotomization spree to confuse the gullible readers about the real causes of cancer, you use all the strategies available to talk about the value of cancer screening, leaving unmentioned the the studies that alert us about the dangers of mammography http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1401875 .
As I had tried to explain to one of your like-minded “scientist”, Thomas Mohr, who had stated that “Malnutrition is a result and not a major cause of cancer. Period.” and that “Cancer is NOT the result of malnutrition. Period.”, I wrote: “The real human body is composed of physiological systems. These are composed of organs. These are composed of tissues. These are composed of cells. These are composed of organelles. These are composed of proteins. These are composed of amino-acids. Amino-acids assembly order in the cells is determined by the structure of nucleic-acids (the most important of all our biomolecules). Nucleic-acids (DNA, RNA) are themselves composed of nucleotides. Nucleotides are composed of bases. These are composed of Purines and Pyrimidines. Purines and Pyrimidines are Adenine (A), Guanine (G), (Cytosine [C], Thymine [T] and also Uracil [U]). These are components of water, foods, air, sun ray”.
To see further whether he grasps the working of the real human body, I further wrote: “Well, because it is obvious that you have some difficulties to understand or accept the real human body (it is not your fault; it may be that those who funded your medical school just didn’t want you to know this), l would like to assure you that Glutathione is the Mother of All Antioxidants, and that it is essential to prevent CANCER, ageing, heart disease, dementia, etc., and that it is paramount for the healing of everything in body, from autism to Alzheimer’s disease. The body synthesises Glutathione from the amino-acids Cysteine, Glutamic acid and Glycine. Id est, HO2CCH(NH2)CH2SH + C5H9NO4 + NH2‐CH2‐COOH ->C10H17N3O6S. Guess what? Cysteine is encoded by the codons UGU (Uracil, Guanine and Uracil) and UGC (Uracil, Guanine and Cytosine). Glutamic acid is encoded by the codons GAA or GAG (Guanine, Adenine, and Adenine) or (Guanine, Adenine and Guanine). Glycine is encoded by the codons GGU, GGC, GGA, GGG (Glycine, Glycine and Uracil), (Glycine, Glycine and Cytosine), (Glycine, Glycine and Adenine), (Glycine, Glycine and Glycine). Guess more? Uracil, Guanine, Cytosine and Adenine are Purines and Pyrimidines, all components of water, air, foods and sun rays. That looks like if, to synthesise adequate amount of Glutathione we need to be well nourished. Don’t you think? Are you able to see, now, that chronic MALNUTRITION can be a major cause for cancer, and that cancer can be an obvious result of chronic MALNUTRITION?”.
Dr. Gorski, from the comments to your 2015 article on Prostate and Breast cancer, you can see that even within the conventional mindset, your theories and hypothesis on cancer and its dynamics are so profuse and confusing, just because you guys have not understood or pretend you have not understood, which will, after all, benefit your sponsors from the cancer industry. This is just to tell you that if you really want to fight against quackery in medicine, you’re looking in the wrong place. The conventional medicine was not set up to be scientific, but to be profitable, and maybe malicious. To help patients solve their cancer problems, you should stop trying to lure them into believing that cancer is more of a genetic thing, while it is so obvious that cancer is more of an epigenetic thing. Cutting, poisoning and burning will not do much, just because the real reasons why cancer started in one place was not dealt with yet. Beside chronic nutritional deficiencies and imbalances, caused by fake toxic foods (promoted by your friends in aggro-chemical industry and war industry), our immune system seems to have been further compromised by toxic unsafe vaccines (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/salk_vaccine_coverup.html; http://www.whale.to/v/eddy.html; http://www.whale.to/vaccine/bayly.html), certain medications (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/393579?redirect=true; http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HypertensionNews/study-links-popular-blood-pressure-drugs-cancer/story?id=10909261) and toxic cosmetics (http://www.breastcanceruk.org.uk/reduce-your-risk/do-you-know-whats-in-your-cosmetics/; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4376142/The-20-harmful-chemicals-beauty-products.html).
Your take on Britt Hermes seems to show that you are not interested in protecting people’ health, but big pharma undisclosed agenda (profit, population control, genocide?). I just want you to be intellectually honest, if that is still possible. Put people’s safety before the money you may be getting from big pharma.
I will post these comments on other sites, in case you decide not to publish them.
Wow. That’s a lot of word salad going on there. I am, however, amused that you made so many citations to Whale.to, the crankiest of crank sites (with the possible exception of Natural News).
I was even more amused by your “explanation” for how malnutrition can cause cancer, mainly because it’s just a bunch of handwaving. Just because our proteins are made up of amino acids and our DNA and RNA are made up of nucleic acids do not mean that malnutrition causes cancer. Also, I have no idea what you mean by “Uracil, Guanine, Cytosine and Adenine are Purines and Pyrimidines, all components of water, air, foods and sun rays.” No, these are not components of water, air, or sun rays, although foods, being derived from plants and animals, do contain these nucleic acids. Basically, your whole post is a mass of woo babble. it sounds science-y, but is, when examined by anyone with a bit of scientific knowledge, utterly meaningless drivel.
As for the rest, well whatever never mind.
Sofia – do you get paid by the comma?
I will post these comments on other sites, in case you decide not to publish them.
Uh-huh. A cut-&-paste spamming waste of bandwidth, then.
You left off Mike Stevens. I presume that your throwing a bowl of copypasta at Mohr is somewhere in there, but this is too good to be left unmentioned (emphasis added):
Do you have any legal authority to “treat people,” viz., practice medicine, or was that an oopsie?
Disqustink is terrible.
Now, that’s just plain rude.
your friends in aggro-chemical industry
I guess these are chemicals that cause violence.
You reap what you sow…and you have sowed a heck of a lot.
Whom are you addressing?
I don’t know about you, but I wear what I sew. Though an annoying evil squirrel eats the spinach that I sow.
Thanks for the content free advice… its meaning is elusive.
I tend to oversow when evaluating gesneriad crosses. It causes overcrowding in the pots and then I have trouble discarding the extras (it seems cruel). 🙁
This appeared in the CLG newsletter today. It is an otherwise fairly trustworthy source of non-crazy alternative news coverage but is anti-vaccine. The links have been disabled, so you’ll have to go to the site to read them:
“Kidney doctor who sounded the alarm on vaccine damage was targeted for murder when the brake lines of her vehicle were secretly clamped | 04 Feb 2018 | Many in the natural health community are already aware of the recent death threat that vaccine truth advocate Dr. Suzanne Humphries received from an anonymous assailant. But what you may not realize is that Dr. Humphries was previously targeted for murder when someone maliciously severed the brake lines on her vehicle..Dr. Humphries also recalled at least three other incidents besides the recent death threat that she’s faced over the years. One of them was a large crossbow arrow that someone had stuck into the ground on her front lawn. Another was an incident where someone had broken into her home and turned on the gas line, presumably to kill whoever might be inside with carbon monoxide.”
There’s an hour-long video interview with her by someone at Natural News embedded above, and every one of the YouTube comments was supportive. This indicates to me that they systematically mobilized the troops to endorse it.
No one has carbon monoxide gas lines in their house.
Carbon monoxide can be released when natural gas is burnt and if you appliances are poorly maintained and insufficient oxygen reaches the burn site. Opening the gas line and leaving it is more likely to result in an explosion than carbon monoxide poisoning.
No one has carbon monoxide gas lines in their house.
Not since the 1970s in the UK when “coal gas” was still a thing, or the 1950s in the US. But Humphries is just regurging old literary conventions. The “severed brake lines” is an equally implausible fabulation, stolen from watching “Topaz” or “Capricorn 3”.
“the CLG newsletter today. It is an otherwise fairly trustworthy source of non-crazy alternative news coverage”
The lead story at the moment is “Body of hero Russian Su-25 pilot retrieved from Syria and returned to Russia”, and general vibe of RT / Sputnik. Along with a sidebar of Sandy Hook denialism resources. We may have different definitions of “trustworthy” and “non-crazy”. It looks like just another conspiracy pukefunnel to me.
And it uses the newest conspiracy buzz phrase “Deep State”.
By the way, I love the phrase “conspiracy pukefunnel”. It perfectly describes that site.
I see what you’re saying. I haven’t paid close enough attention to this site since it actually was a fairly reliable source of alternative news. I know the founder and the editor from George W. Bush days when it did provide what many other sources do much better now.
This is crazy stuff. I posted it because it reflects the paranoid response to the “persecution” of Humphries.
Also, how dumb do you have to be to understand that natural gas lines do not pump in carbon dioxide? I did not see that part because I’m having trouble displaying entire text in my browser and had a browser crash right after I posted this. I will be more careful next time.
The scary thing about the Humphries situation is how fast the anti-vaxxers jump on any possibility of a conspiracy. There are absolutely no sane controls on this stuff, so apologies for reposting something from what is obviously now a whacko site.
Yes, pukefunnel now that I’ve looked at the recent posts. It’s been very disconcerting how quickly some of the early “alternative” news sites have turned into complete mush (looking at you, HuffingtonPost) and now advocate the likes of Oz and even uncritically promote the obviously extreme woo crowd. Whatever gets you clicks, I guess
I have my own conspiracy theory that the true “deep state” of hidden funding/front groups to launch some other pukefunnels into the mainstream in a very crafty and cleverly hidden way is how these people have discovered they can acquire a larger following and thus sell whatever they have to sell while hiding in plain sight. Follow the money.
I suspect they are well aware (Sears, Mercola) that they will be shot down on the scientific merits and so put huge money behind their various propaganda efforts so that they will always get more hits from more sources and have more exposure than their debunkers. And sell more stuff, of course. It’s just a numbers game. Overwhelm your critics. Easy.
Unfortunately, clicks rule this game. If you have a few million people passing along your garbage in an exponential way, how could that not drown out the sparse exposure and audience of credible critics?
It’s not clear from the Natural News summary whether the fabrication about “kill[ing] whoever might be inside with carbon monoxide” are Mikey’s words or Humphries’. Either way, they know the stupidity of the target audience. I suspect that many of Mikey’s audience are quite familiar with the experience of smelling gas, and finding or being told that the stove is on, and realising that someone must have broken into the house and turned it on because they don’t remember turning it on themselves.
This is all Narrativium, and literary convention, from the time 50 years ago when “suicide by gas oven” was a thing, because Ye Olde-Fashioned coal gas did contain CO.
And the cool story about how
This whole history of dramatic fabulation is consistent with the current death threat being equally fraudulent.
I referred to the Adams’ Natural News interview video above on the 27th.
You can see how Mikey’s drivel gets spread around the internet. I often look at altie sites and see something I heard at prn a few days earlier. Woo proliferates like a toxic biofilm in the still waters of a swamp.
Mike Adams is probably the worst. Null is as bad with less reach.
New readers may notice how much of these sites are filled with political rants and fantasies: these loons focus upon right wing lunacy- rather than left- most likely because they think that these partisans will reward their like-mindedness with purchases from their stores.
Mike is especially clear about his beliefs- guns, g-d and hardworking life on the ranch.
Null’s are more of a pastiche: rural life, traditional values with new agey spiritual nonsense sprinkled on top.
Both claim that they support more liberal ideas ( equal rights based on race, sex, gender etc)
– they wouldn’t want to lose any potential customers.
let me correct myself:
Both idiots support gay rights –
BUT Mikey is especially adamant against trans gender and fluid gender
This is what should scare the daylights out of any scientist or life researcher now: the intersection of woo and right-wing lunacy and how it may go way beyond the possibly eroding association with evangelicals, who still hold some real power. The convergence of radical right-wing daftness–especially survivalist paranoia–with woo is no coincidence.
Sorry, life sciences researchers. We are neuroscientists and are not directly involved in clinical work.
Sara: “There’s an hour-long video interview with (Humphries) by someone at Natural News embedded above, and every one of the YouTube comments was supportive. This indicates to me that they systematically mobilized the troops to endorse it.”
The non-conspiracy explanation is that someone posted a link to the interview at another popular woo site, and visitors there came over to check it out and ooh and aah in approval.
No one needs to “systematically mobilize the troops”. I’m reminded of the reaction on Amazon when there’s a flurry of negative reviews of an antivax book, and the resident antivaxers become indignant about how “paid Pharma trolls” have descended upon them. 🙂
116 Ghits for “an incident where someone had broken into her home and turned on the gas line”. Yes, they circulate this sh1te.
As a tribute, here is some fake news circulation:
Unfortunately, the aforementioned idiots have many, many fans/ followers.
I don’t go by the ‘likes’ at Mikey’s because he games the system- supposedly, anyone who ever signs up for anything at NN is included. PLUS he has multiple sites in his link army.
I look at other things like individual posts/ some are surprisingly high. See also Mercola.
The other idiot has less of a social media presence but posts on you tube and is linked by other natural health and woo sites.
In addition, he has internet radio, land-based radio and a phone listening system as well as an ap. It seems as though many of his videos get plays in the thousands, occasionally hundreds of thousands.. See you tube.
Purely anti-vax sites ( AoA, TMR etc) have trouble getting high numbers. BUT they distribute their tripe around woo-ish places.
Yeah. I have a degree in information science as a supplement to other things I do. Remember the Science Citation Index? Its strategy has been adapted to the web universe. The principle of developing a matrix of interlocking references that can be infinitely spread is accessible to anyone in the woo world now. Internet marketing people have of course jumped on that.
If you can figure out who and what has the greatest potential to spread your garbage, you almost don’t need to pay for a website with restricted readership. Just create a strategy based on this and on internet marketing principles–among other tools–to blast your crap out to credulous people who have better networks than you do.
Decades ago in this field we had very sophisticated but still relatively straightforward models for describing how these things spread. Now the algorithms for doing that are mind-boggling.
I still assert that front groups and these woo monsters/meisters are paying big bucks to enlist advanced strategies to spread their messages in a way that shouts down critics because their troops are bigger than anti-woo troops. They are using the tools of political organizing and very advanced web marketing in subtle ways. They have the money now to do this.
For Dangerous Bacon: I disagree. Our investigation of a very similar situation demonstrates that these organizations have rapid-response teams to descend on anything that might filter out into the mainstream and may discredit them. They very definitely have ways to mobilize the troops and are using political organizing tactics to be sure they flood the field with their own point of view. YouTube in particular has few meaningful safeguards against this.
It’s disgusting, illegal, etc. but it is unfortunately par for the course when you are on the internet in any position of public notability. I would imagine the police will attempt to find sender IP addresses and take obvious steps, but there is little else they can do besides that. If the person used a VPN, the chances of them being caught is pretty much 0.